View Full Version : Are there reliable gun disarm techniques?
11-12-2005, 10:54 AM
Is there such a thing as a reliable gun disarm technique? What style, if any, teaches it? I am asking because a DJ friend of mine recently got taken off at gun point after doing his thing at a club. He says that he can live with the loss of cash.What he does have trouble dealing with is the possibility that he might encounter a gunman when he is with his lovely and alluring lady friend, and maybe the gunman wants something other than cash from her....Indeed:Suppose you have to tangle with a gunman because the presence of family or friends leaves you no choice.Who teaches the best way to do it? In my martial arts library, I have a US Army hand-to-hand combat manual circa Korean War, and an FBI "Defensive Tactics" manual circa mid-1960's.The techniques in those manuals would not have helped my DJ friend because the gunman was holding the gun at his hip, not extending it from his body like the guys in those manuals.How say you? Sincerely, Shuto
11-12-2005, 11:45 AM
I posted a story in a recent thread about a guy down the street that reportedly disarmed a guy trying to rob him with a sawed-off shotgun. He was successful. Luck? Or maybe the gunman didn't really intend to pull the trigger? Who knows...
I think there are too many variables to call any disarming technique "reliable" as with any street encounter. Obviously, if your gut feeling is that you or a loved one is going down, better to take your best shot at defending yourself than dying without putting up a fight.
Likely your best defence, as others have posted, is your mind and how well you can react in a pressure situation like that. You may have a second to weigh your options, you may have 5 minutes before you need to make your move. It depends on how critical you assess the situation to be and how much time your attacker gives you, etc.
For example, if a gunman came into a convience store to rob it while you were browsing the magazines with a coffee in your hand, and he yells get down on the floor from twenty feet away. How are you going to disarm him? Do you think he'll actually shoot you if you don't do as he says? Are you going to do as he says and hope for the best? Will you try to make a run for it? If the gunman was closer, say 5 feet, would that be close enough to disarm him? Would you think to splash his face with the coffee? What if you miss? So many possibilities...
I read an interview with Frank Shamrock about a fight that he got into with a guy who supposedly, rudely butted in front of him at a Home Depot. Home Depot? Apparently, Frank got into an arguement with guy and followed the guy into the parking lot. Frank claims the guy tried to punch him, at which point Frank drops the guy with a couple punches and a knee. Next, the guy pulls a large knife and Frank decides to make a run for it, fearing the guy might toss it at him.
If Frank had remained on top of the guy until he pinned him the knife would never had been a problem. Back it up to when the guy butted in line and that's where the first and best defence could have occurred - who gives a **** if someone butts in line. Frank's ego got him into that mess.
Sometimes a person has more choice about avoiding potentially dangerous situations than they realize.
11-12-2005, 04:09 PM
they have gun disarming moves in my krav class, but i havent bothered attending those seminars. the way i see it, he has a gun, you better run. the only situation where a guy could get disarmed is if it happens at very close range, and you react VERY quickly.
i heard that you never try the old finger in the trigger technique. a few moves i've seen resemble getting the gun hand in a kimura like move and turning your back to the attacker so you can focus on the gun threat.another move is simular to disarming knife attackers, in which you get to their weapon side and use your elbow to control their arm before using a wrist jamming move to drop them.
i always thought they were 1 in a 100 chance move. unless you are within hands distance when the weapon is pulled, you're screwed.
11-13-2005, 12:26 AM
Remember, it often only takes him 1/2 a second or less to put the gun into position and pull the trigger, but it probably takes you at least a second to get to him. By then a good semi-auto's put a few bullets in ya. But in my mind I'm thinking that I'd be trying to distract him by looking wild-eyed over his shoulder or something, BOTH of my hands going for the gun, unless I he's got a knife in the other. Don't do any of that My left hand reaches out and deftly grabs the barrel of the gun while my thumb does this and my pinky that crap. All you want at that second it that gun. And if you're trying to get the gun out of his hand it seems smart to go against his wrist inwardly because it's weakest that way, but pushing his wrist up would be good too, then it's against the wrist and thumb at the same time. If pushing it inward means sweeping it across your body that's not good. And go against his thumb. That's the weakest digit. And if you can, turn the gun towards his abdomin, put your finger on the trigger, and squeeze. That will probably slow him down some, but don't count on it.
Like Lefty said, any move will be a long shot. But if your life depends on it any Jackie Chan Rush hour type of technique will get you killed. It's all mental, fight-flight response basically. Either you react very fast at once before your attacker is committed to actually shooting you or you wait for an opening. When your attacker commits to whatever he had on his mind when he pulled the gun on you, he may provide an opening due to being distracted by thoughts of committing his crime.
If you react really fast or get an opening then your next task is to get the shooting-angle away from you. Your best bet is to use the mirror-hand of your opponents gun-hand. If your still alive after deflecting the gun-hand then follow-up with a head-butt, kick to the groin or wathever to put your attacker of balance (as long as it's fast) while still deflecting the gun-hand. Then go for control of the gun.
9 times out of 10 you'll still end up shot. And as you have probably aggravated your opponent he'll have more motivation to finish you off and you'll be dead.
As you can see there is no skill or technique that you can train. You just need fast reaction and alot of luck. Some self-defence schools make a big deal of training the mental part but even with alot of mental training there is still a good chance that you'll freeze-up because nothing, short of actually surviving an experience like this, will prepare you for it.
Still, studies have shown that people who have drilled in evacuation procedures or similar disaster responses are better at coping with a catastrophic event than people who have not and thus they stand a better chance at survival. So you might want to enroll in a class like Leftys, just don't put much stock in disarming techniques and focus on the mind-set instead.
So in short no, there are no reliable gun disarm techniques. If anyone tells you different get a paintball gun and ask him to prove it. And no, don't let him dictate the range or angle of your attack. Just you and your gun and him with his bag of tricks and see who comes out on top ;)
11-27-2005, 08:27 PM
Close proximity,timing, and the right response all must be in place....that's it!
11-28-2005, 09:52 AM
I'm glad to see we didn't have alot of responses with goofy Bruce Lee theatrics that will only get you killed.
1) Limit your activities in areas where a gun or knife might be pulled on you. 2am in a club parking lot isn't the safest place to be.
2) Always be in condition yellow and be aware of your surroundings, the people in it, the potential for danger. This is just like the serengeti where predators look for the prey that is weakest and least aware. If you are on guard and aware, you have already taken one small step to being less of a target.
3) If you are confronted, give them what they want and run at the first opportunity. Most who have a gun can't shoot for ****, so if you can get more than 15 feet away, the chances are they can't hit you anyway. Duck and dodge. Look at all the police shootings where they were close and emptied their guns and missed most shots. Thats from trained shooters.
4) Assess who has the gun. If its a 17 year old kid holding it sideways gangsta style, chances are he will miss if you can put any distance between you. However, give them what they want and don't push it. I only recommend action if you are about to be murdered. How do you know? That I don't have an answer to.
5) You don't play games if the person is a trained shooter. Chances are, they aren't pulling a gun on you unless YOU are the problem. A trained shooter who knows gun retention techniques, stress fire techniques and practices, will put a double tap in your chest before you even get that sweeping Bruce Lee roundhouse in motion.
6) If its a knife, same stuff applies. If you engage, you will be cut or stabbed. Frank being afraid the knife would be thrown at him was ignorant. You back off and the idiot throws the knife, no way in hell is he going to hit you and even if he did, chances are it wouldn't stick perfectly. Then, you got a knife to wave in his face. Again, run first because they aren't going to chase you for your wallet and draw attention. But, if its personal and they are trying to take you out--its a whole different ball game and you better fight for your life.
7) The will to live is very important. There have been people shot with a .22 who died while others took .45 rounds to the chest and lived. That can't be taught.
8) Finally, make sure YOU aren't the problem. Many states allow concealed carry licenses and if you and your freinds are engaged in a little "friendly harrasment" of someone on the street, you just might find them pulling a Glock 26 out of their pocket and giving you a world of trouble.
In closing: minimize being in bad situations, always be aware, don't die over money, run fast, fight to the death in a worst case scenario and don't be a problem yourself.
11-28-2005, 02:22 PM
put one hand up to distract and the other to grab... I do it all the time with my friends, if they dont look at the hand thats up and read the trick I just use that hand to hit them, but dont be a hero on my account.
11-29-2005, 11:02 PM
some advice about knives- if someone tries stabbing you and you see it coming, move to his/her left or right- only back up if it's the only option, because it takes more time for the knife guy to re-adjust to the side than straight in front of him.
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