Someone explain the ending to the Penn/Sherk bout

[Drunken Gamer]

Did Sherk or Penn comment on it afterwards?


Here is what I saw:

1. Penn was wailing on Sherk when the bell sounded.

2. Penn says the fight is over, but according to Rogan's comments, Sherk was saying it was not.

3. All of Penn's corner then jump in the cage to congratulate their fighter. You then hear Rogan disgustingly say "Penn called the fight!"

4. The ref then comes into view and waves his hands, signaling the end of the bout.


Now, don't get me wrong; I was rooting for BJ Penn. I always like to see brain over brawn. But did Penn and his corner's actions here influence the the ref's decision to end the bout? Maybe I am just disappointed that I didn't get to see Penn smash Sherk's face for another two rounds.

[Takenover]

I think Penn asked him if he wanted anymore, and Sean waved him off. This at least what one of my buddies said, we was all too busy wrestling eachother( happy as hell). He walked over there and threw up his arms before Sean got up, and I think he said he didnt want anymore.

[dhk1980]

I think Penn asked him if he wanted anymore, and Sean waved him off. This at least what one of my buddies said, we was all too busy wrestling eachother( happy as hell). He walked over there and threw up his arms before Sean got up, and I think he said he didnt want anymore.

if sherk did that, then he is gutless like i thought he was.

[Anytime]

I think Penn asked him if he wanted anymore, and Sean waved him off. This at least what one of my buddies said, we was all too busy wrestling eachother( happy as hell). He walked over there and threw up his arms before Sean got up, and I think he said he didnt want anymore.

oh, i sure hope you took some pics of that for us.. that could be your next addiction to BBW, grown men manhandling eachother! :lol:

[dhk1980]

oh, i sure hope you took some pics of that for us.. that could be your next addiction to BBW, grown men manhandling eachother! :lol:

nah, there is no chance taken was able to take a pic. he was too busy fondling the fattest one of the group. :D

[dogofwar]

That ending was complete BS. The bell sounded, Sherk has until the beginning of the next round to continue unless he says he can't...which I didn't see him do.

BJ was awesome last night but that ending sucked.

[Takenover]

It's not cosidered sex is if you were rolling around, and it accidently fell in, is it?

[dhk1980]

That ending was complete BS. The bell sounded, Sherk has until the beginning of the next round to continue unless he says he can't...which I didn't see him do.

BJ was awesome last night but that ending sucked.

sherk's corner was absolutely atrocious. if sherk was having a hard time getting up, they should've rushed over to him and helped him like Franklins' corner did in the second andy fight.

[dhk1980]

It's not cosidered sex is if you were rolling around, and it accidently fell in, is it?

so u were busy fondling the fattest one of the group and it fell in? ;)

[RasButten]

I think Penn asked him if he wanted anymore, and Sean waved him off. This at least what one of my buddies said, we was all too busy wrestling eachother( happy as hell). He walked over there and threw up his arms before Sean got up, and I think he said he didnt want anymore.


Yeah, thats what I got too. Sherk threw in the towell. Penn owned his soul hard.

[Snapcat]

Sherk said he didn't hear the horn sound so he was probably still dazed. I think he thought the fight was called and not that it was the end of the round. If he had known it was the end of the round I think he would have continued, he just thought it was called because he didn't heard the horn but the fight stopped.

[Drunken Gamer]

Yeah, thats what I got too. Sherk threw in the towell.

If so, why was Rogan saying the opposite?

[Onion]

I saw it the same way you saw it DG. It seemed like BJ's actions influenced the ref's decision

[RasButten]

Guys, Sherk didn't even hear the bell ring. that's never a good thing...

i can't see how you can protest or even question that stoppage. He was done. a 4th or 5th round wasn't going to turn anything around from him and may have just required an extra night at the hospital.

[Onion]

Guys, Sherk didn't even hear the bell ring. that's never a good thing...

i can't see how you can protest or even question that stoppage. He was done. a 4th or 5th round wasn't going to turn anything around from him and may have just required an extra night at the hospital.

I don't question the stoppage, as I think it was just. I don't believe however that the ref should have made that decision well after the bell had rung, simply because BJ said it was over (yes, slight exaggeration)

[frmadig]

If so, why was Rogan saying the opposite?

now now now, we cant always trust Rogan. According to him everyone in the UFC has some sick _______. With that said Im not sure if what BJ did caused the ref to stop the fight but I do think the fight should have been stopped.

[ACIDBATHBELFORT]

Guys, Sherk didn't even hear the bell ring. that's never a good thing...

i can't see how you can protest or even question that stoppage. He was done. a 4th or 5th round wasn't going to turn anything around from him and may have just required an extra night at the hospital.

Thats exactly what said earlier. Sherk admitted he didnt hear the bell, which means he was incoherent. I think BJ saw he was out and figured the fight would be stopped, or he may have just been celebrating his beatdown. Who knows? Fact is though that Sherk was obviously out of it and after looking into it the ref saw that. Or possibly Sherk or his corner may have said something to stop the fight/throw in the towel.

[dogofwar]

It doesn't matter how buzzed he was, the bell rung the round was over, he has a minute to get it together or throw in the towel...neither of which happened. The ref just stopped it after BJ told him to.

[BruceLee]

In fairness to Sherk, just because he didn't hear the bell doens't mean he was KOed or out of it.

It can get awfully hard to hear in the Octagon, especially when the crowd starts cheering loudly. I think Mazzagatti had this problem on more than one occassion hearing the bell.

I still think Sherk was done either way.

[Ash]

sherk's corner was absolutely atrocious. if sherk was having a hard time getting up, they should've rushed over to him and helped him like Franklins' corner did in the second andy fight.

I was thinking the same thing. Like, "Man, Sherk's corner sucks.... they shoulda just ran in, and scooped his KO'd ass up like Franklin's team did..."

[niniendowarrior]

I don't question the stoppage. Penn pummeled Sherk and I think the first punch after the flying knee took out Sherk and the next punches kind of woke him up. I take it the ref stopped it at the bell.

I think Joe Rogan said what he said because of the feed shown with Penn waving his arms and Sherk crouched on the ground. I don't think he really had any idea what was happening.

[Thumpin]

If so, why was Rogan saying the opposite?

Because Joe is a douche nozzle.

[Drunken Gamer]

now now now, we cant always trust Rogan. According to him everyone in the UFC has some sick _______. With that said Im not sure if what BJ did caused the ref to stop the fight but I do think the fight should have been stopped.

I figured Joe saw something at ringside that we couldn't see on camera. The camera angle changed to where it was focusing on Penn, so I couldn't see what Sherk was saying or doing, if in fact he was doing anything.

As far as those saying that since he didn't hear the bell that it must have meant he was incoherent, I took as he couldn't hear the bell over the crowd noise. The crowd got LOUD when Penn threw that knee and started wailing on him.

[jspecex]

who cares if it was a bad stop. you never once heard sherk contest the stop even after the fight was over. he was done and say his corner did pick him up and it wasn't stopped he would have just got beat down even worse just like franklin. franklins corner was kind of stupid for doing that they are supposed to look out for his well being not just them wanting him to win.

[Drunken Gamer]

who cares if it was a bad stop. you never once heard sherk contest the stop even after the fight was over. he was done and say his corner did pick him up and it wasn't stopped he would have just got beat down even worse just like franklin. franklins corner was kind of stupid for doing that they are supposed to look out for his well being not just them wanting him to win.

I don't know because I couldn't hear what Sherk was saying. Rogan says he was complaining.

[jspecex]

I don't know because I couldn't hear what Sherk was saying. Rogan says he was complaining.

yeah but in his interview he had a greatchance to say something but his head was still probably ringing. it wasn't the worst ko or tko but he was out of it for more then just a few seconds.

[Madcap]

Anyone record it? Wasn't the official declaration (when they announce the winner and raise the hand) that Sherk did not want to continue? I don't think it was a "KO" or "TKO". Ugh, was a bit buzzed....memory failing more and more these days.

[dcapps953]

Sherk got messed up at the end of the round. It looked like he waved off the fight. His face was all messed up, his hand was hurt, and he might have actually been out at the end of the round, anyway. He was in no condition to fight!

[BulldogWrestler]

if sherk did that, then he is gutless like i thought he was.


Yes, because you - as a pro mma fighter - can easily take a vicious knee to the head and get hammered a few times and be fine. :rolleyes:

If Sherk said he was out and couldnt continue - more power to him.

Penn straight up beat his ass, and that knee was devesating.

[dhk1980]

Yes, because you - as a pro mma fighter - can easily take a vicious knee to the head and get hammered a few times and be fine. :rolleyes:

If Sherk said he was out and couldnt continue - more power to him.

Penn straight up beat his ass, and that knee was devesating.

and you are?? didn't u say that u chickened out of a fight recently? :D the 2x that sherk has been in fights where things weren't going his way and got nailed, he curled up into fetal position and mailed it in. and we're talking about a guy who's supposed to be an elite fighter who was supposedly involved in the biggest LW fight in MMA history. u ever see Nog do that?? u ever do wandy do that? heck, franklin was more hurt than sherk and he got his ass up with the help of his corner and tried to come back and fight in the 2nd RD. heck, tito took a devastating body shot and showed some guts and held on and fought back. i guess i'm talking to the right guy when it comes to talking about a fighter's spirit and showing some warrior courage. :rolleyes:

[Drunken Gamer]

and you are?? didn't u say that u chickened out of a fight recently? :D the 2x that sherk has been in fights where things weren't going his way and got nailed, he curled up into fetal position and mailed it in. and we're talking about a guy who's supposed to be an elite fighter who was supposedly involved in the biggest LW fight in MMA history. u ever see Nog do that?? u ever do wandy do that? heck, franklin was more hurt than sherk and he got his ass up with the help of his corner and tried to come back and fight in the 2nd RD. heck, tito took a devastating body shot and showed some guts and held on and fought back. i guess i'm talking to the right guy when it comes to talking about a fighter's spirit and showing some warrior courage. :rolleyes:

Ouch!!!! That had to hurt! :D

[dhk1980]

Ouch!!!! That had to hurt! :D

hey, just b/c a person isn't a professional fighter doesn't mean that he can't tell when someone has a huge heart or not. :D it's not ****ing rocket science.

[nagai]

Did you hear Sherk's Post Interview? Check it out on UFC.com. He admitted not knowing what was going on, and what happened. He didn't remember anything that happened. He was there sitting in the corner pretty much out. If you cant remember what went on, that usually means a concussion. Sherk was more hurt than you people think. I need to re watch the end of the fight, but I did notice the ref half heartedly jump in to stop the fight but held back. Then pulled them off when the bell sounded. That to me is a bad officiating.

Sherk plain and simple gave up.

[specialk39330]

In fairness to Sherk, just because he didn't hear the bell doens't mean he was KOed or out of it.

It can get awfully hard to hear in the Octagon, especially when the crowd starts cheering loudly. I think Mazzagatti had this problem on more than one occassion hearing the bell.

I still think Sherk was done either way.

im from hawaii and was at the fight to see penn destroy sherk. but in fairness to sherk I couldn't hear the bell either. wen mario yamasaki broke the two up I thought he was calling the fight. then when I found out the round ended I was a bummed but then the fight was really called 10 seconds later.

[BulldogWrestler]

and you are?? didn't u say that u chickened out of a fight recently? :D the 2x that sherk has been in fights where things weren't going his way and got nailed, he curled up into fetal position and mailed it in. and we're talking about a guy who's supposed to be an elite fighter who was supposedly involved in the biggest LW fight in MMA history. u ever see Nog do that?? u ever do wandy do that? heck, franklin was more hurt than sherk and he got his ass up with the help of his corner and tried to come back and fight in the 2nd RD. heck, tito took a devastating body shot and showed some guts and held on and fought back. i guess i'm talking to the right guy when it comes to talking about a fighter's spirit and showing some warrior courage. :rolleyes:

I didn't chicken out of a fight - I chose not to take a fight against an opponent who was WAY more experienced and WAY more skilled than me. It would be similiar to you being put in the ring with Fedor - obviously you wouldnt do that either. And it wasn't recent.

And I'm not the one bashing a fighter for not coming out (and it's unconfirmed whether Sherk asked for it to be stopped or if the ref decided he just couldnt fight) after he took a devestating knee that left him knocked out untill Penn started hitting him again. You are. You're the one criticizing him when you (by your own admission) have never competed or trained and have absolutely no idea what "heart" is - much less what it takes to be 1/2 of the level these guys are at. All you do is yap, yap, yap on an internet forum. It's one thing to say you think he could have continued - it's a whole nother thing to flame fighters when they can't move forward. Sherk was done when that knee hit. The fight was over right then and there. The ref SHOULD have stopped it there, but probably realized there were only a couple more seconds left and decided to let it continue. Within those couple of seconds, strikes to Sherk's head brought him to. (Sort of) Even then, he was still in a daze and wasn't able to get up, much less fight.

Sherk IS an elite fighter, BJ is just a lot better. There's no shame in not coming out (assuming it was Sherk's call - which is unconfirmed) when you've already been trounced.

And until you actually fight, don't question anyone's "spirit." You're a ****ing retard and a joke.

[BulldogWrestler]

Did you hear Sherk's Post Interview? Check it out on UFC.com. He admitted not knowing what was going on, and what happened. He didn't remember anything that happened. He was there sitting in the corner pretty much out. If you cant remember what went on, that usually means a concussion. Sherk was more hurt than you people think. I need to re watch the end of the fight, but I did notice the ref half heartedly jump in to stop the fight but held back. Then pulled them off when the bell sounded. That to me is a bad officiating.

Sherk plain and simple gave up.

He may have given up, but he was out the instant that knee hit - and came to (sort of) after Penn started hitting him again. Sherk had no clue where he was, and 30 seconds in the corner wasn't going to help that. If Sherk DIDNT call it after that, he should have. There's a difference between having a big heart and coming out for another round when you aren't fully aware or concious.

[dhk1980]

I didn't chicken out of a fight - I chose not to take a fight against an opponent who was WAY more experienced and WAY more skilled than me. It would be similiar to you being put in the ring with Fedor - obviously you wouldnt do that either. And it wasn't recent.

And I'm not the one bashing a fighter for not coming out (and it's unconfirmed whether Sherk asked for it to be stopped or if the ref decided he just couldnt fight) after he took a devestating knee that left him knocked out untill Penn started hitting him again. Sherk was done when that knee hit. The ref SHOULD have stopped it there, but probably realized there were only a couple more seconds left and decided to let it continue.

Sherk IS an elite fighter, BJ is just a lot better. There's no shame in not coming out (assuming it was Sherk's call - which is unconfirmed) when you've already been trounced.

And until you actually fight, don't question anyone's "spirit." You're a ****ing retard and a joke.

so you're telling me that if a person has never fought, then he/she can't analyze anything or call things as they are, huh? and i'm the joke? LOL! so tell me, has sherk ever exhibit as much heart as guys like fedor, nog, or heck, even takayama and Don Frye? oh wait, i'm not supposed to even ask that cuz i've never fought professionally! :rolleyes:

[dhk1980]

He may have given up, but he was out the instant that knee hit - and came to (sort of) after Penn started hitting him again. Sherk had no clue where he was, and 30 seconds in the corner wasn't going to help that. If Sherk DIDNT call it after that, he should have. There's a difference between having a big heart and coming out for another round when you aren't fully aware or concious.

so if he gave up, then how come we can't question his heart? again, we're talking about an elite fighter here u idiot. fans expect to see some heart from the elite fighters. btw, was he out against GSP when he curled up into fetal position and didn't even try to battle out of the situation? oh what do u think about Franklin being out at the end of the 1st RD against andy in the 2nd fight and trying to get up to go to his corner, but not being able to, but had his corner come and help him and afterwards continuing to fight in the 2nd RD?

[Drunken Gamer]

Did you hear Sherk's Post Interview? Check it out on UFC.com. He admitted not knowing what was going on, and what happened. He didn't remember anything that happened. He was there sitting in the corner pretty much out. If you cant remember what went on, that usually means a concussion. Sherk was more hurt than you people think. I need to re watch the end of the fight, but I did notice the ref half heartedly jump in to stop the fight but held back. Then pulled them off when the bell sounded. That to me is a bad officiating.

Sherk plain and simple gave up.

Wrong....I interviewed him myself, and he told a completely different story.

See below:

http://www.mmafighting.net/forum/showthread.php?t=26259&page=2

[wgrapple]

Not sure what the argument is Sherk was destroyed by the flurry and knee. The fight was stopped correctly. Who wanted to see BJ beat on him more after that flush knee?

[nagai]

so if he gave up, then how come we can't question his heart? again, we're talking about an elite fighter here u idiot. fans expect to see some heart from the elite fighters. btw, was he out against GSP when he curled up into fetal position and didn't even try to battle out of the situation? oh what do u think about Franklin being out at the end of the 1st RD against andy in the 2nd fight and trying to get up to go to his corner, but not being able to, but had his corner come and help him and afterwards continuing to fight in the 2nd RD?


There's a difference betwen heart and plain stupidity. If you cant even get up and walk to your corner, and not remember what happened 10 seconds ago, you should not be fighting.

[nagai]

He may have given up, but he was out the instant that knee hit - and came to (sort of) after Penn started hitting him again. Sherk had no clue where he was, and 30 seconds in the corner wasn't going to help that. If Sherk DIDNT call it after that, he should have. There's a difference between having a big heart and coming out for another round when you aren't fully aware or concious.


I'm not saying he should have came out for another round. Im trying to make a point to the people who say it was a bad stoppage, that Sherk had no business continuing.

[dhk1980]

There's a difference betwen heart and plain stupidity. If you cant even get up and walk to your corner, and not remember what happened 10 seconds ago, you should not be fighting.

so i guess Nog is stupid cuz there were many many times where he got nailed and could've curled up into fetal position and mailed it in, but didn't. :D

[Drunken Gamer]

so i guess Nog is stupid cuz there were many many times where he got nailed and could've curled up into fetal position and mailed it in, but didn't. :D

Yeah, it's not exactly the kind of stuff champions are made of. :confused:

[DOC_JJ]

I think it was such a difficult call to make by the ref, that it could have gone either way and the decision could have been argued both ways.

If the fight was allowed to continue (IE Sherk was dragged to his corner and given a minute to recover), BJ would have just curb stomped him in the next round. Then there would have been the argument that the fight should have been stopped after that brutal knee and subsequent fists to Sherk's face.

Since the fight was stopped, now we're seeing people wondering why it wasn't allowed to continue, and pointing toward Penn and Penn's corner's actions as to why it wasn't allowed to continue, when the fight was really so close to either being over, or Sherk being saved by the bell, that it could go either way.

Bottom line is, it was close. Too close to unanimously agree on whether or not the fight was over via KO before the bell, or if Sherk should have been given a minute to recover. Whether or not you agree with the stoppage, the end result would have more than likely been exactly the same.

As for my personal opinion, I would have rather seen Sherk get dragged to his corner. If after given a chance to recover, the towel was thrown, that would have shown a lot more about Sherk's "heart" that has been discussed here. As of right now, he was KO'd and the fight stopped. He repeatedly said in the post fight interview that he didn't remember what happened, or even what shot put him out. That means he was KO'd, whether or not the bell should have saved him. He was too out of it to quit - the ref made the decision for him. Had he been given a minute to recover and then quit, then I would fully question his heart.

[tpnurdle]

I think it was such a difficult call to make by the ref, that it could have gone either way and the decision could have been argued both ways.

If the fight was allowed to continue (IE Sherk was dragged to his corner and given a minute to recover), BJ would have just curb stomped him in the next round. Then there would have been the argument that the fight should have been stopped after that brutal knee and subsequent fists to Sherk's face.

Since the fight was stopped, now we're seeing people wondering why it wasn't allowed to continue, and pointing toward Penn and Penn's corner's actions as to why it wasn't allowed to continue, when the fight was really so close to either being over, or Sherk being saved by the bell, that it could go either way.

Bottom line is, it was close. Too close to unanimously agree on whether or not the fight was over via KO before the bell, or if Sherk should have been given a minute to recover. Whether or not you agree with the stoppage, the end result would have more than likely been exactly the same.

As for my personal opinion, I would have rather seen Sherk get dragged to his corner. If after given a chance to recover, the towel was thrown, that would have shown a lot more about Sherk's "heart" that has been discussed here. As of right now, he was KO'd and the fight stopped. He repeatedly said in the post fight interview that he didn't remember what happened, or even what shot put him out. That means he was KO'd, whether or not the bell should have saved him. He was too out of it to quit - the ref made the decision for him. Had he been given a minute to recover and then quit, then I would fully question his heart.

Your post seems the most logical of all the ones I have read so far. Quitting and not being able to continue are two very different things. I think he was to F'd up to go on.

[wgrapple]

Your post seems the most logical of all the ones I have read so far. Quitting and not being able to continue are two very different things. I think he was to F'd up to go on.

Definitely...BJ hits hard and Sherk's face is proof of that. Sherk straight out lost the fight...He looked out of it even a few minutes after he recovered.

[Fedor Fan]

Did Sherk or Penn comment on it afterwards?


Here is what I saw:

1. Penn was wailing on Sherk when the bell sounded.

2. Penn says the fight is over, but according to Rogan's comments, Sherk was saying it was not.

3. All of Penn's corner then jump in the cage to congratulate their fighter. You then hear Rogan disgustingly say "Penn called the fight!"

4. The ref then comes into view and waves his hands, signaling the end of the bout.


Now, don't get me wrong; I was rooting for BJ Penn. I always like to see brain over brawn. But did Penn and his corner's actions here influence the the ref's decision to end the bout? Maybe I am just disappointed that I didn't get to see Penn smash Sherk's face for another two rounds.

Your absolutely correct, the ref let the actions of Penn and his corner influence his judgement.

[Juggernaut]

That ending was complete BS. The bell sounded, Sherk has until the beginning of the next round to continue unless he says he can't...which I didn't see him do.

BJ was awesome last night but that ending sucked.

bj was smashing sherk, stopped looked at the ref to see if he was gonna stop it, the ref didnt, bj continued, the round ended. bj walked off, sherk was fcked up, the ref saw it, stopped it, END OF STORY.

[wgrapple]

Your absolutely correct, the ref let the actions of Penn and his corner influence his judgement.

Or maybe he saw what everyone else saw(including BJ and his corner) that Sherk had lost the fight or at least the will to.

[Drunken Gamer]

Or maybe he saw what everyone else saw(including BJ and his corner) that Sherk had lost the fight or at least the will to.

Which contradicts Rogan's comment of Sherk saying that the fight was not over yet.

[drunkmonk]

Sherk had to say he didnt want anymore. BJ corner men would have came in anyway to get ready for next round so it seems that Sherk quit for the fight to end like that.

[Trill Cosby]

Just watched the press conference and it was said by BJ that Penn looked at the ref and asked if they were gonna keep going. Then Sherk said he didn't want anymore. No objections from Sherk so I guess that's what happened.

[Loot]

I had no problem with the stoppage. It seems that the argument is whether Sherk said no more or if he was too incoherent to properly answer the rer...Both of those should result in a stoppage, regardless if the fighter's corner drags his limp body onto a stool or lets him crouch in the corner.

But seriously, did anyone notice BJ's post fight bull****. I really wanted to root for the guy. He is a great fighter. He said a lot of good (and bad) things coming into this fight, and I wanted him to win me over. He performs great and I'm thinking he's earned a lot of respect tonight, and then has to rush over to a sub-conscious Sherk, wipe the blood from his face, and lick it off...

It's like he tries to be a good guy but his natural asshole-ish nature just seeps through...

[Cbear]

so i guess Nog is stupid cuz there were many many times where he got nailed and could've curled up into fetal position and mailed it in, but didn't. :D

Big Nog would have eaten that big knee, spit out a tooth and then dove in to grab a leg for an ankle lock. Ain't no quit in Big Nog. Not now, not ever.

[nagai]

so i guess Nog is stupid cuz there were many many times where he got nailed and could've curled up into fetal position and mailed it in, but didn't. :D

The only time i ever saw Big Nog in trouble where he actually got dropped was against Herring. Since Herring didnt jump all over it Nog recovered. Had herring jumped all over it and kept punching nog in the face to the point where he didn't know where he was or just sat there after the bell, I'll call that stupidity and not heart. Heart gets you through the fight when your tired, or maybe hurt your arm or hand during the fight. Heart is NOT when you get knocked out for a bit get up not rememebr anything that happened cant walk to your corner and try to come out for the next round. So Jardine has no heart for getting all stiff and not able to go for the next round.

[cchjd]

I had no problem with the stoppage. It seems that the argument is whether Sherk said no more or if he was too incoherent to properly answer the rer...Both of those should result in a stoppage, regardless if the fighter's corner drags his limp body onto a stool or lets him crouch in the corner.

But seriously, did anyone notice BJ's post fight bull****. I really wanted to root for the guy. He is a great fighter. He said a lot of good (and bad) things coming into this fight, and I wanted him to win me over. He performs great and I'm thinking he's earned a lot of respect tonight, and then has to rush over to a sub-conscious Sherk, wipe the blood from his face, and lick it off...

It's like he tries to be a good guy but his natural asshole-ish nature just seeps through...


You'd be able to enjoy this game more if you accepted that not everybody is well-mannered. Just judge them on their skill and enjoy the fights. These guys aren't vying for moral superiority, just fighting superiority. Some guys are nice, some dicks, some in between, whatever, same as all walks of life. What if some of the mild mannered guys like Fedor have a really dark side that they're just really good at keeping a secret? What if Couture has date-raped a woman in the past and she never told anyone? Just because he's good at faking the nice guy routine in front of fans, should we consider him a better person? Truth is, we don't know the inner workings of these fighters' minds. Another example, everyone nuthugged Michael Jordan all his career and even to this day, but now we know he's a degenerate gambler, cheated on his wife various times, punched teammates in practice, etc. Not the nicest guy in the world. Should that affect our perception of his accomplishments on the basketball court? No. It is what it is. No one is perfect.

Being a fan of athletes, MMA fighters or otherwise, is like watching a movie; you need to suspend disbelief and just enjoy the show.

[nagai]

You'd be able to enjoy this game more if you accepted that not everybody is well-mannered. Just judge them on their skill and enjoy the fights. These guys aren't vying for moral superiority, just fighting superiority. Some guys are nice, some dicks, some in between, whatever, same as all walks of life. What if some of the mild mannered guys like Fedor have a really dark side that they're just really good at keeping a secret? What if Couture has date-raped a woman in the past and she never told anyone? Just because he's good at faking the nice guy routine in front of fans, should we consider him a better person? Truth is, we don't know the inner workings of these fighters' minds. Another example, everyone nuthugged Michael Jordan all his career and even to this day, but now we know he's a degenerate gambler, cheated on his wife various times, punched teammates in practice, etc. Not the nicest guy in the world. Should that affect our perception of his accomplishments on the basketball court? No. It is what it is. No one is perfect.

Being a fan of athletes, MMA fighters or otherwise, is like watching a movie; you need to suspend disbelief and just enjoy the show.

Wow.... Well said.

[Loot]

You'd be able to enjoy this game more if you accepted that not everybody is well-mannered. Just judge them on their skill and enjoy the fights. These guys aren't vying for moral superiority, just fighting superiority. Some guys are nice, some dicks, some in between, whatever, same as all walks of life. What if some of the mild mannered guys like Fedor have a really dark side that they're just really good at keeping a secret? What if Couture has date-raped a woman in the past and she never told anyone? Just because he's good at faking the nice guy routine in front of fans, should we consider him a better person? Truth is, we don't know the inner workings of these fighters' minds. Another example, everyone nuthugged Michael Jordan all his career and even to this day, but now we know he's a degenerate gambler, cheated on his wife various times, punched teammates in practice, etc. Not the nicest guy in the world. Should that affect our perception of his accomplishments on the basketball court? No. It is what it is. No one is perfect.

Being a fan of athletes, MMA fighters or otherwise, is like watching a movie; you need to suspend disbelief and just enjoy the show.

Maybe I made it seem it was a huge deal to me in my previous post, and it really wasn't. I attempted to be clear that BJ really impressed me, both in his pre-fight interviews and in his performance. But I've never really been a BJ Penn fan, and today I found myself becoming one....only to be quickly reminded of the BJ I know...That's why it stuck out.

Anyhow, I find your response/advice strange. First, I've readily accepted that not everyone is well-mannered in any venue of sport...or life. That's pretty much a foregone conclusion. That doesn't mean I have to ignore, condone, or admire actions that I disagree with or do not like...Nor does it mean that paying attention to those negative behaviors takes away from my appreciation and enjoyment of a fight.

And I find it odd that you would suggest that I ignore personalities and behaviors in order to enjoy a sport, when personality is what is at the very center of what makes every sport enjoyable. Every sport society has created serves to rehearse our instinct for competition, and we crown champions and elevate athletes to mythical status because of both their accomplishments in sport and the traits about them that we admire, their toughness, perseverence, pride, heart, etc...We identify with personalities of individuals and root for them. They may be flambouyant, hard-nosed, arrogant, humorous, etc...We even personify entire teams collectively and label them "blue-collar, etc."

I enjoy MMA in many ways for many different reasons. I thought I did a good job of explaining that I enjoyed the skill BJ demonstrated during the fight and his new outlook on MMA. But I also enjoy the cognitive aspect of the sport, how fighters deal with adversity, both physically and especially mentally. I enjoy witnessing how a fighter's personality interacts with the pressures that are placed upon them and the actions and coping behaviors that result. I enjoy watching guys absorb physical punishment and acting as if they feel nothing because they are so incredibly focused on their next move or improving their position. And I am capable of enjoying all of thsoe things and appreciating a fighter's talent and performance without having to ignore or rationalize their behaviors outside of the cage or after a fight.

A dick more is a dick move...The man won a great fight, rushed over to his semi-conscious opponent, pushed through a few people, reached down and wiped blood from his face so that he could lick it off. It was disrespectful. Pointing that out doesn't take away from my enjoyment of MMA in any way. It adds to it.

Ignoring a fighter's actions and personality would be denying yourself of a great deal of the entertainment involved in sport, so I don't see the motivation for doing so. My guess is that you are a BJ fan suggesting this in order to overlook or minimize his negative behaviors so that you can view him in a more positive light??? j/k...otherwise I don't understand why someone would suggest such a thing.

[cchjd]

Maybe I made it seem it was a huge deal to me in my previous post, and it really wasn't. I attempted to be clear that BJ really impressed me, both in his pre-fight interviews and in his performance. But I've never really been a BJ Penn fan, and today I found myself becoming one....only to be quickly reminded of the BJ I know...That's why it stuck out.

Anyhow, I find your response/advice strange. First, I've readily accepted that not everyone is well-mannered in any venue of sport...or life. That's pretty much a foregone conclusion. That doesn't mean I have to ignore, condone, or admire actions that I disagree with or do not like...Nor does it mean that paying attention to those negative behaviors takes away from my appreciation and enjoyment of a fight.

And I find it odd that you would suggest that I ignore personalities and behaviors in order to enjoy a sport, when personality is what is at the very center of what makes every sport enjoyable. Every sport society has created serves to rehearse our instinct for competition, and we crown champions and elevate athletes to mythical status because of both their accomplishments in sport and the traits about them that we admire, their toughness, perseverence, pride, heart, etc...We identify with personalities of individuals and root for them. They may be flambouyant, hard-nosed, arrogant, humorous, etc...We even personify entire teams collectively and label them "blue-collar, etc."

I enjoy MMA in many ways for many different reasons. I thought I did a good job of explaining that I enjoyed the skill BJ demonstrated during the fight and his new outlook on MMA. But I also enjoy the cognitive aspect of the sport, how fighters deal with adversity, both physically and especially mentally. I enjoy witnessing how a fighter's personality interacts with the pressures that are placed upon them and the actions and coping behaviors that result. I enjoy watching guys absorb physical punishment and acting as if they feel nothing because they are so incredibly focused on their next move or improving their position. And I am capable of enjoying all of thsoe things and appreciating a fighter's talent and performance without having to ignore or rationalize their behaviors outside of the cage or after a fight.

A dick more is a dick move...The man won a great fight, rushed over to his semi-conscious opponent, pushed through a few people, reached down and wiped blood from his face so that he could lick it off. It was disrespectful. Pointing that out doesn't take away from my enjoyment of MMA in any way. It adds to it.

Ignoring a fighter's actions and personality would be denying yourself of a great deal of the entertainment involved in sport, so I don't see the motivation for doing so. My guess is that you are a BJ fan suggesting this in order to overlook or minimize his negative behaviors so that you can view him in a more positive light??? j/k...otherwise I don't understand why someone would suggest such a thing.

^ This is all too simplistic. It's assumes psychology entails behavior. It's often the case that a person's actions belies their feelings or thoughts. Some of the most gracious people I've ever met in life, I later found out were some of the phoniest. And some people that I've known that get caught up in their emotions on occasion and don't act as appropriately as they should, are generally the most decent people I know. Honestly, you spoke to the problem itself. That fans try to identify with these athletes. That's a fool's effort. None of these guys are moral role models. To paint some guys as good and others as bad just because of how they act the .00001% of the time you actually get to see them in their lives, is the epitome of presumptuous, and frankly, irrational.

And yes, I'm a BJ fan, but no more than I'm a fan of many other fighters like GSP, Fedor, Melendez, Kid, etc. I'm not excusing BJ's actions, because there is nothing to excuse. He can do what he wants. I watch him for entertainment, not because he somehow represents my beliefs. I'm an adult. I don't have heroes. People are just people. All flawed.

[Name Goes Here]

It didn't seem to me like BJ influenced the ref, it seemed like he was asking the ref if it was over (through mime), ref said yes after some delay. Rogan is just adding unnecessary drama. BJ's blood thing is just adding drama to the show, it didn't seem classless to me, though maybe I'm just nut hugging. Anyway imo, once you've won, then you can act like a punk. At least he didn't teabag him or something.

There is no shame in stopping if you're getting beaten, it's just smart. GSP has done it. Why risk your long term chances on the hope the other guy gets tired of hitting you in the face.

I want BJ v Hughes Rematch

[dhk1980]

Big Nog would have eaten that big knee, spit out a tooth and then dove in to grab a leg for an ankle lock. Ain't no quit in Big Nog. Not now, not ever.

so it does have to do with quiting and not quiting in those situations, huh old CB? thanks. :D

[dhk1980]

]The only time i ever saw Big Nog in trouble where he actually got dropped was against Herring. [/B] Since Herring didnt jump all over it Nog recovered. Had herring jumped all over it and kept punching nog in the face to the point where he didn't know where he was or just sat there after the bell, I'll call that stupidity and not heart. Heart gets you through the fight when your tired, or maybe hurt your arm or hand during the fight. Heart is NOT when you get knocked out for a bit get up not rememebr anything that happened cant walk to your corner and try to come out for the next round. So Jardine has no heart for getting all stiff and not able to go for the next round.

i guess u haven't seen much of nog then. so he wasn't rocked against, Fedor in their first fight? or against crocop when he took that high kick? or against timmy in the first RD? and do u know have how many guys would have mailed it in with Bob Sapp mauling them like he was doing to nog? you're clueless. and how do u compare a situation where jardine was KO'd unconscious to a situation where sherk was rocked and not knocked out unconscious? do u even know the difference? :rolleyes: i guess Fedor was stupid for continuing to fight Fujita and for not mailing it in after he got badly hurt. oh, so let me ask u this, if Nog, fedor even were in sherk's situation, would they have at least tried to get up and continue fighting?? we all know the answer to that. so why?? oh that's right, it's b/c they are ****ing stupid!!! :rolleyes: AGAIN, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT ELITE FIGHTERS HERE. THERE IS A REASON WHY CERTAIN GREAT FIGHTERS ARE SEPARATED FROM THE REST. THEY DON'T KNOW HOW TO QUIT, ESPECIALLY IN HUGE ASS FIGHTS. AND THIS FIGHT WAS TAGGED AS THE BIGGEST FIGHT IN LW HISTORY. AND SHERK ****ING QUIT IN IT.

[ACIDBATHBELFORT]

Nog should have been stopped by Herring had he not had a brain fart. So had Nog been stopped would that mean he quit? There is a big difference in a fight stoppage and quiting. We dont know the full story as to why the fight was stopped. Was it Sherk or the ref? Either way I dont think Sherk could have continued, he looked out of it.

[dhk1980]

Nog should have been stopped by Herring had he not had a brain fart. So had Nog been stopped would that mean he quit? There is a big difference in a fight stoppage and quiting. We dont know the full story as to why the fight was stopped. Was it Sherk or the ref? Either way I dont think Sherk could have continued, he looked out of it.

getting stopped b/c you're KO'd unconscious or the ref stepping in b/c u can't defend yourself intelligently is totally different from curling up into fetal position cuz u had enough. and sherk has basically done that against GSP and BJ in the 2 biggest fights of his career when things weren't going his way. so how come u don't call him out for his bully syndrome acid and u do for tyson acid? be fair!

[ACIDBATHBELFORT]

getting stopped b/c you're KO'd unconscious or the ref stepping in b/c u can't defend yourself intelligently is totally different from curling up into fetal position cuz u had enough. and sherk has basically done that against GSP and BJ in the 2 biggest fights of his career when things weren't going his way. so how come u don't call him out for his bully syndrome acid and u do for tyson acid? be fair!

I call out Tyson and Mirko on that because so many think they are the greatest thing ever. On the other hand Sherk is just seen as a top ten LW.

I think Sherk was pretty much out of it. I dont think he was just giving up like some of you are making it sound.

[dhk1980]

I call out Tyson and Mirko on that because so many think they are the greatest thing ever. On the other hand Sherk is just seen as a top ten LW.

I think Sherk was pretty much out of it. I dont think he was just giving up like some of you are making it sound.

nobody has ever considered mirko the greatest ever cuz he's never beaten anyone like nog or fedor. if sherk had won this fight, people would have started discussing him as one of the all time greats cuz this was considered the biggest LW fight in MMA history and b/c BJ is an all time great talent (notice i didn't say fighter, yet).

oh and answer me this, would nog, fedor or BJ have tried to at least continue in that situation that sherk was in?? oh, and who do think was more hurt at the ends of the franklin/andy 2 fight and the BJ/sherk fight?? and how come franklin tried to continue?? and there is no question franklin was more hurt.

[ACIDBATHBELFORT]

nobody has ever considered mirko the greatest ever cuz he's never beaten anyone like nog or fedor. if sherk had won this fight, people would have started discussing him as one of the all time greats cuz this was considered the biggest LW fight in MMA history and b/c BJ is an all time great talent (notice i didn't say fighter, yet).

oh and answer me this, would nog, fedor or BJ have tried to at least continue in that situation that sherk was in?? oh, and who do think was more hurt at the ends of the franklin/andy 2 fight and the BJ/sherk fight?? and how come franklin tried to continue?? and there is no question franklin was more hurt.

No one thought of Mirko as number one, but he was still a bit overhyped. Anyways, all I know is Sherk looked out of it and we dont know who or why the fight was stopped. If he quit, then yes you can trash is heart all you want and Ill agree.

[dhk1980]

just saw the end of that 3rd RD and as soon as BJ finishes hitting sherk and as the bells rings and the ref steps in to signal the end of the RD, Sherk goes on one knee. to me, that is not a sign of a fighter who's badly out.

[tom_dot_com]

Actually Sherk was still conscious after the knee, he went limp after BJ landed a couple punches, then came to again. If anything, it was a late stoppage.

I think the ref was conflicted with the time left in the round and the well being of Sherk. I don't think he wanted to call the fight so close to the end of the round, but he knew Sherk was out of it.

Sherk has nothing to complain about, the fight should have been called before the round ended, when his body went limp.

[dhk1980]

Actually Sherk was still conscious after the knee, he went limp after BJ landed a couple punches, then came to again. If anything, it was a late stoppage.

I think the ref was conflicted with the time left in the round and the well being of Sherk. I don't think he wanted to call the fight so close to the end of the round, but he knew Sherk was out of it.

Sherk has nothing to complain about, the fight should have been called before the round ended, when his body went limp.


well, he was given a second chance and he let that slip then. :D do u know what second chance would've done for someone like nog or fedor or even BJ?

[Loot]

^ This is all too simplistic. It's assumes psychology entails behavior. It's often the case that a person's actions belies their feelings or thoughts. Some of the most gracious people I've ever met in life, I later found out were some of the phoniest. And some people that I've known that get caught up in their emotions on occasion and don't act as appropriately as they should, are generally the most decent people I know.

Yes, people's actions sometimes don't represent their true feelings. This is common sense. But psychology does entail behavior. When a person's actions belies theer feelings or thoughts, that's still psychology entailing behavior...just not as it is perceived outwardly. When someone acts in ways that contradict thier feelings and emotions, there is still a psychological reason for that. If your advice is that I shouldn't make an entire character judgment based off of one action that a fighter exhibits in the cage under an intense emotional situation, than I completely agree. That's not what I am doing here. As for people who get caught up in their emotions and don't act properly as they should, I encounter them on a daily basis. Their affect instability is the very reason they have to see me, and it's how I put food on the table.

To paint some guys as good and others as bad just because of how they act the .00001% of the time you actually get to see them in their lives, is the epitome of presumptuous, and frankly, irrational.

Again, I agree. But all I said was that I did not like something BJ did after the fight...I found his post fight action to be disrespectful and unnecessary. So again, the fact that he could be a great individual doesn't need to be pointed out. Doing so does make it look like you are making excuses for his actions.


I'm a BJ fan, but no more than I'm a fan of many other fighters like GSP, Fedor, Melendez, Kid, etc. I'm not excusing BJ's actions, because there is nothing to excuse. He can do what he wants. I watch him for entertainment, not because he somehow represents my beliefs. I'm an adult. I don't have heroes. People are just people. All flawed.

I'm glad you are an adult and not looking for a hero. I'm glad you seem to accept that people are flawed. Trust me, I do as well. I actually find that suggestion ironic, as accepting peoples' flaws is central to my career and more necessary for my profession than probably any other. But this advice seems out of place here. Because people are flawed, I shouldn't comment on a behavior I didn't like? I should ignore it in order to improve my enjoyment of MMA? BJ could very well be a great guy...but a dick move is a dick move, as I said before. And pointing out a behavior I did not like doesn't take away from my enjoyment of MMA...It adds to it.

I can't for the life of me fathom why you are constructing the argument that you are constructing, and furthermore why you decicded to do so in response to my post about BJ's post fight action. Again, the only motivation that makes sense is that you are a BJ supporter looking to minimize his negative actions and build some odd argument as to why I should too...That's really how it seems.

It's very simple. The guy did something I disagree with. Yes, he can do what he wishes, just as we all can. It rubbed me the wrong way. I liked the fight and was turned off by his post fight action. So I commented on it. For some odd reason you took issue with that and decided to suggest that I would enjoy MMA more if I or some odd reason, chose to have selective attention and only notice certain behaviors inside the octagon.

If you chose to watch MMA and view every fight as the same two silhouettes competing, more power to you. If you want to ignore certain behaviors for your favorite fighters, have fun. I will continue to enjoy the personalities that fighters present both in and outside the cage, and I will continue to root for those who respect the sport and demonstrate perseverence, good-sportsmanship, tenacity, heart, etc. And, while I will always respect the abilities and work of the athletes that I do not care for, I will root against those who show poor sportsmanship, disrespect, arrogance, etc...

[Loot]

Anything come out on Sherk's hand yet? He really seemed to lose his composure right after he shook that hand off.

[ACIDBATHBELFORT]

just saw the end of that 3rd RD and as soon as BJ finishes hitting sherk and as the bells rings and the ref steps in to signal the end of the RD, [B]Sherk goes on one knee]/B]. to me, that is not a sign of a fighter who's badly out.

I guess for someone who spends a lotta time on their knees youd know?

We often see fighters quickly start to get up or actually get up quickly. Its instinct, yet they are were completely out right before. He may not have the most heart but I think he was pretty out of it.

[Vanno]

I guess they could have rolled Sherk out for another round of being a punching bag, but I thought the fight should have been stopped pretty much the moment he knee landed. Sherk was done.

[Snapcat]

Loot, I'm with you on BJ's post fight actions. I thought it was truly disrespectful and it shows a continuing tread of him being a straight up asshole who doesn't like it when people don't believe he is better than them. It happened with Jens too when he held that choke well after the tap and ref stopped the fight. He can only respect you if you agree that he's better than you. Jens beat him when he was the IT guy in MMA and he only hated Jens for beating him not because Jens did anything other than show him who was better that night.