Finding a school/MMA advice

[Mrock4]

Hey all. I come from a Judo background..nothing incredible, but I can still hold my own in the judo department. That being said, I've been wanting to get into MMA for the last 2 years, but spent the majority of that time in Iraq with the Army, so I haven't had the chance until now finally.

My dilemna- my ultimate goal is to compete in MMA. Not necessarily anything wild (UFC/WEC), but just local (Statewide maybe) competitions for the fun of it. Being that I know Judo, I have some ground skills, but nowhere near a BJJ student. There's 3 schools in the area:

1) Small school where only gracie BJJ is taught, Matt Arroyo from the ultimate fighter show teaches here

2) Large school, have a complete MMA curriculum, from muay thai/boxing, to BJJ, etc..highly expensive..can't really afford

3) A beat up, but extremely well taught Muay thai school here..relatively inexpensive, and outstanding instructor.

Any advice? I understand this is a grappling forum, but I'm just wanting some advice from more experienced grapplers than myself. What would you do? I am leaning towards Muay Thai for a while as I have *some* grappling background, but I just don't want to get into my first MMA bout and get my ass handed to me because my ground game is lacking.

I appreciate it. I'm extremely motivated and ready to train, I just can't find a direction. I only know the outcome I am shooting for.

[BruceLee]

Hey all. I come from a Judo background..nothing incredible, but I can still hold my own in the judo department. That being said, I've been wanting to get into MMA for the last 2 years, but spent the majority of that time in Iraq with the Army, so I haven't had the chance until now finally.

My dilemna- my ultimate goal is to compete in MMA. Not necessarily anything wild (UFC/WEC), but just local (Statewide maybe) competitions for the fun of it. Being that I know Judo, I have some ground skills, but nowhere near a BJJ student. There's 3 schools in the area:

1) Small school where only gracie BJJ is taught, Matt Arroyo from the ultimate fighter show teaches here

2) Large school, have a complete MMA curriculum, from muay thai/boxing, to BJJ, etc..highly expensive..can't really afford

3) A beat up, but extremely well taught Muay thai school here..relatively inexpensive, and outstanding instructor.

Any advice? I understand this is a grappling forum, but I'm just wanting some advice from more experienced grapplers than myself. What would you do? I am leaning towards Muay Thai for a while as I have *some* grappling background, but I just don't want to get into my first MMA bout and get my ass handed to me because my ground game is lacking.

I appreciate it. I'm extremely motivated and ready to train, I just can't find a direction. I only know the outcome I am shooting for.

If your goal is to train MMA you would at least need More Ground work and great standup.

I guess I would weigh it as the MMA gym cheaper than the Muay Thai + Matt Arroyo school.

If you can only pick one then I guess I would work on Standup (Muay Thai) since you could use your Judo to keep it standing. Also, if it get to the ground and you were facing a better BJJ guy, then I guess the worst that could happen is you get submitted/tap and suffer no damage. Just use your Judo Osae Komi on the ground.

From what I have seen a Judo Blackbelt's ground game is probably on par with a BJJ low Bluebelt just becaue of the amount of time spent on Newaza.

[cameronb]

I would say try both out for a week (that's pretty standard for most school's) for free and see what you think of both. Both are needed though and it your stand up is awful you may want to try some MT. Then again if they teach traditional MT then your boxing is going to be lacking.

Good luck man and remember don't rush yourself into a fight. These smaller companies are taking advatage of young fighters right now, with the success of the UFC, guys are in there that have no business fighting yet.

[Mrock4]

I greatly appreciate the advice given by both of you. I made it a point to visit (almost) every martial arts club in the area that even slightly interested me. Thankfully, things kind of chose themself after tonight. I was really wanting to do a mixture of Judo and MT..mainly because I didn't want to become too rusty on the judo I know. I visited the last club I hadn't checked out here, and it was a good 45 minute drive, and once I arrived, it was more of an aikido class. Granted, they are close, but that's not what I'm looking for. I watched quite a bit, and it looked like an extremely traditional class. Nice, but not for me.

The MT place is not very traditional, although my first impression is that the instructor takes a lot of pride in teaching his students properly..which is good.

I will see how MT goes once my gear arrives, and maybe after a while I can put in some part time at the gracie school here to sharpen my ground game.

Contrary to how my post sounded, I am not in a terrible hurry to fight. I really want to have fun with it, but gain skill in the process. I basically have 3 years to burn here in Tampa while my service runs out. Figure I should try to be productive during that time.

Thanks again!

[BulldogWrestler]

Go to the muay thai school and also train with your local high school wrestling team. You'll learn a bit of the ground game to compliment your judo while learning good stand up.

From that point, you can invest in an all out mma school if you still feel you want to fight, or do BJJ and combine the three.

[BulldogWrestler]

From what I have seen a Judo Blackbelt's ground game is probably on par with a BJJ low Bluebelt just becaue of the amount of time spent on Newaza.

A more false statement has NEVER been said.

[BruceLee]

A more false statement has NEVER been said.

Ugh, why do you say that.

From what I have seen their ground game isn't that great. They are good at pins but their subs and sub defense are lacking.

Of course there are different levels of Judo Blackbelts but getting a basic Judo Blackbelt takes alot less time then a BJJ Blackbelt.

In fact a Judo BlackBelt from Japan was telling me that over there you can take a course in high school and get your Judo BlackBelt. (Dunno how long the course has to be, but even if it's 3 years) that's really fast compared to a BJJ Black Belt.

[dwarfofdoom]

Ugh, why do you say that.

From what I have seen their ground game isn't that great. They are good at pins but their subs and sub defense are lacking.

Of course there are different levels of Judo Blackbelts but getting a basic Judo Blackbelt takes alot less time then a BJJ Blackbelt.

In fact a Judo BlackBelt from Japan was telling me that over there you can take a course in high school and get your Judo BlackBelt. (Dunno how long the course has to be, but even if it's 3 years) that's really fast compared to a BJJ Black Belt.

The problem with that is that the quality of newaza varies greatly not only from club to club, but instructor to instructor. You really cannot make any general comments about the "average" Judo BB newaza being equivilant to a blue. Case in point there are three blackbelts at my judo club, two of them I can handle, the other wipes the floor with me tapping me at will (he even tapped me while I had him mounted).

Another example is Winston Gordon, Judo black belt. Entered his first comp as bluebelt (even though technically he was a BJJ novice) won and was immediately given his purple.

Also its almost universally agreed Judoka are tougher and better conditioned that Jitsuka. Judo training is hard.

[BruceLee]

The problem with that is that the quality of newaza varies greatly not only from club to club, but instructor to instructor. You really cannot make any general comments about the "average" Judo BB newaza being equivilant to a blue. Case in point there are three blackbelts at my judo club, two of them I can handle, the other wipes the floor with me tapping me at will (he even tapped me while I had him mounted).

Another example is Winston Gordon, Judo black belt. Entered his first comp as bluebelt (even though technically he was a BJJ novice) won and was immediately given his purple.

Also its almost universally agreed Judoka are tougher and better conditioned that Jitsuka. Judo training is hard.

Of course things vary from club to club but common sense should just tell you that a judo guy with equivalent amount of hours spent in the gym is not going to have the ground game of a bjj game guy since the amount of time devoted to the ground will not be the same. (And conversely a judo guys standup/throwing game will be miles ahead of a bjj guy)

Not to mention the fact that even when you randori, you are limited on the amount of time that you can spend on the ground. Those rules encourage pinnning, since if you are good at pinning someone you can LnP your way to the standup.

Also like I said you can get a judo blackbelt alot quicker than an average Bjj blackbelt which means you will have spent even less time on the ground.

"In Adult Division, it is planned so as to make one attain the First Dan after finishing three months"
(Kodokan Website for International students. This requires going 5-6 times a week for 1.30 hours each.)
http://www.kodokan.org/e_basic/school.html#intl

So after 108 hours of instruction in 3 months you can get your Judo 1st Dan BlackBelt at the Kodokan. There is no BJJ curriculum that allows you to get your Blackbelt after 3 months.

Now getting 2nd dan is alot harder. According to the Kodokan that takes 7 Years after getting promoted to 1st dan.
http://www.kodokan.org/e_basic/shoudan.html

[BulldogWrestler]

Ugh, why do you say that.

From what I have seen their ground game isn't that great. They are good at pins but their subs and sub defense are lacking.

Of course there are different levels of Judo Blackbelts but getting a basic Judo Blackbelt takes alot less time then a BJJ Blackbelt.

In fact a Judo BlackBelt from Japan was telling me that over there you can take a course in high school and get your Judo BlackBelt. (Dunno how long the course has to be, but even if it's 3 years) that's really fast compared to a BJJ Black Belt.


Two different "types" of Judo. Sport judo, yeah. You won't know jack**** about subs because it's a game where people "play" judo rather than follow the art.

"True" Judo and by the time you get your black belt - you're a ****in' whiz on the ground. I flew through my BJJ classes because alot of the stuff I already knew from Judo.

[BulldogWrestler]

Also, I was hanging with the brown belts in my gym when I first started BJJ when I moved to California and relatively knew most everything from purple down. I won a competition and they "started me" at purple (after I was a white belt for 2 months). Go figure.

[BulldogWrestler]

Of course things vary from club to club but common sense should just tell you that a judo guy with equivalent amount of hours spent in the gym is not going to have the ground game of a bjj game guy since the amount of time devoted to the ground will not be the same. (And conversely a judo guys standup/throwing game will be miles ahead of a bjj guy)

Not to mention the fact that even when you randori, you are limited on the amount of time that you can spend on the ground. Those rules encourage pinnning, since if you are good at pinning someone you can LnP your way to the standup.

Also like I said you can get a judo blackbelt alot quicker than an average Bjj blackbelt which means you will have spent even less time on the ground.

"In Adult Division, it is planned so as to make one attain the First Dan after finishing three months"
(Kodokan Website for International students. This requires going 5-6 times a week for 1.30 hours each.)
http://www.kodokan.org/e_basic/school.html#intl

So after 108 hours of instruction in 3 months you can get your Judo 1st Dan BlackBelt at the Kodokan. There is no BJJ curriculum that allows you to get your Blackbelt after 3 months.

Now getting 2nd dan is alot harder. According to the Kodokan that takes 7 Years after getting promoted to 1st dan.
http://www.kodokan.org/e_basic/shoudan.html

Sport judo. You're comparing apples and oranges here.

[BruceLee]

Sport judo. You're comparing apples and oranges here.

Most everything is Sport or Olympic Judo in the US and Japan. You have to be out in Hawaii or in Europe (where it is called Ju Jitsu) to have the old school Pre WWII Judo that hasn't been corrupted by Post War Judo and is a complete fighting system.

If you are lucky enough to have trained under the old school style then that is a privilege and you will be more complete then either Judo or BJJ.

But when most people think of Judo, they think of Olympic/Sport Judo. I'm pretty sure what the original poster has been practicing is that type of Judo.

[BulldogWrestler]

Well, that's not true - there's just two different sects.

But yeah, I did grow up in Hawaii and learn my Judo there - so you DO have a point.

While the sport Judo is more popular, it's not like finding "true" Judo is searching for a needle in the haystack.

Regardless of which - the statement you made was a blanket statement. ;) Which is why I pointed it out. Didn't mean any hard feelings by it - but some could take that as insulting.