Is Carlos Newton An All-Time Great? [Archive]

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robbypark

11-16-2003, 06:46 PM

We all know about the no-brainer legends like Sakuraba, Bas Rutten, or Royce Gracie, but then there are ones we are unsure of such as Carlos Newton.

Carlos Newton has beaten some of the best and has put up a great fight against other greats he has lost to. He's beaten great fighters like Pat Militech, Renzo Gracie, and Pete Spratt, while putting up great fights against the likes of Kazushi Sakuraba, Matt Hughes, and Dan Henderson. He's a two time UFC champ and a national Jiu-Jitsu champion.

The man has had a great career no doubt, but has his career been good enough to rank him among the all time greats?

claymore

11-16-2003, 07:07 PM

my verdict: yes

Tony Montana

11-16-2003, 07:08 PM

3-3 UFC record
12-6 MMA record

I dont't think that kind of record cuts it to be amongst the all-time greats. But the guys is only 27 years old. He's hopefully got a lot of fights left in him.

claymore

11-16-2003, 07:10 PM

Iron Maiden

11-16-2003, 07:32 PM

He is certainly a great fighter.... Legend? I don't know....I don't think I'm really qualified to say either way.

robbypark

11-16-2003, 10:59 PM

I'm also quite unsure. I've been pondering this question a while in my mind. Obviously the kid is still young and still can do many things, but already in his short career he's been tremendous. He has submission skills unmatched by any in the world today with the exception of Sakuraba and Nogueira, but if he retired today would go into the anals of time as a great one?

just Brian

11-16-2003, 11:21 PM

Newton is one of my favorites. He's a grappler / submission fighter who works hard to improve his techniques i.e. he's still evolving as a fighter. He's a class act, he's intelligent, he's modest and represents MMA very well. That's what makes him great in my world. How is he "objectively" ranked in the world of MMA?...who knows...he's well respected...but honestly I haven't heard him refered to as a "legend" yet.

makavelli

11-16-2003, 11:35 PM

I refer to Newton as a legend. You guys should watch his first fight ever where he totally destroyed that fat white dude. I was amazed.

Shamrocked

11-17-2003, 12:53 AM

He has submission skills unmatched by any in the world today with the exception of Sakuraba and Nogueira, but if he retired today would go into the anals of time as a great one?[/quote]Anals of time? :lol: Sorry robby, I had to point it out. :)

Shamrocked

11-17-2003, 12:55 AM

3-3 UFC record
12-6 MMA record

I dont't think that kind of record cuts it to be amongst the all-time greats. But the guys is only 27 years old. He's hopefully got a lot of fights left in him.Here we go with the records again. You've got to judge a fighter based on his quality of opposition and not solely his record. Carlos is destined to become one of the 'all-time greats".

just Brian

11-17-2003, 12:59 AM

I refer to Newton as a legend. You guys should watch his first fight ever where he totally destroyed that fat white dude. I was amazed.

The first Newton MMA fight I saw...he lost. It was an event called World Extreme Fighting...or something like that. I recall that Newton was out-weighed by at least 50 pounds...and he eventually tapped as he was getting squished / smothered by the other guy...who was a fatty. It was a supreme effort by Newton, but he just got tired I think.

Newton was wearing a gi in that fight too.

Speaking of World Extreme Fighting...there was a famous match-up between Conan Silvera and Maurice Smith...where Smith KO'd Silvera with a highkick. And at that point in the history of MMA a striker beating a BJJ guy was unheard of. And then years later Silvera and Smith fought again...Conan won by side choke that time. The rematch was really huge in terms of build-up, but ultimately anticlimactic.

Shamrocked

11-17-2003, 01:20 AM

Speaking of World Extreme Fighting...there was a famous match-up between Conan Silvera and Maurice Smith...where Smith KO'd Silvera with a highkick. And at that point in the history of MMA a striker beating a BJJ guy was unheard of. And then years later Silvera and Smith fought again...Conan won by side choke that time. The rematch was really huge in terms of build-up, but ultimately anticlimactic.[/quote]

Speaking of Conan, I wonder if he's being submitted regularly in the prison shower? :wink:

robbypark

11-17-2003, 01:35 AM

He has submission skills unmatched by any in the world today with the exception of Sakuraba and Nogueira, but if he retired today would go into the anals of time as a great one?Anals of time? :lol: Sorry robby, I had to point it out. :)[/quote]

hehe, you got to love those typos.... :lol:

shayne

11-17-2003, 07:46 AM

Who doesn't think this guy's awesome? He watches Dragonball Z for gods sake!

TheRockSays

11-17-2003, 10:37 AM

His fight with Saku was a true exsample of his skills. Even though he lost, he fought one of the best and fought Saku's game and put up a great fight.

He is young and his best fights are ahead of him.........

My favorite fight of his is still Newton/Militich

just Brian

11-17-2003, 12:04 PM

Speaking of World Extreme Fighting...there was a famous match-up between Conan Silvera and Maurice Smith...where Smith KO'd Silvera with a highkick. And at that point in the history of MMA a striker beating a BJJ guy was unheard of. And then years later Silvera and Smith fought again...Conan won by side choke that time. The rematch was really huge in terms of build-up, but ultimately anticlimactic.

Speaking of Conan, I wonder if he's being submitted regularly in the prison shower? :wink:[/quote]

He probably discoverd that putting your opponent in your guard doesn't get the results he was hoping for. :?

cyonbloodbane

11-17-2003, 01:27 PM

Legend no, an awesome fighter yes! I think he is very underated and maybe needs better managing, but I suspect we have not seen the last of Carlos. A fight against Vanderlai would be awesome!

Lefty

11-17-2003, 03:08 PM

i for one think it's still to early in his career to be calling him an all time great. not yet anyways. he is a dam good fighter who is still young and may do better as he gets older. but it's just too early to be calling him an all time great. what if he loses his next 5 fights? wait untill his career's done before deciding if he's an all time great.

robbypark

11-17-2003, 04:07 PM

personally, I'd like to see Newton get another shot at Matt Hughes. In my opinion, Newton is the better fighter and if it hadn't been for one of the biggest flukes in the history of the UFC, Newton might still be the UFC's Welterweight champ as it stands now.

just Brian

11-17-2003, 04:46 PM

A fight against Vanderlai would be awesome!

Good grief man, Vanderlai has at least 25 pounds on Carlos, and all muscle at that. I don't think Carlos vs. Vanderlai would be a competative match.

robbypark

11-17-2003, 04:51 PM

Wanderlei vs Carlos would be a slaughtering. Carlos Newton is a pure grappler with little striking ability and look at what Silva did to Sakuraba, a man who's an even better grappler than Newton!

totzilla

11-17-2003, 08:45 PM

A fight against Vanderlai would be awesome!

Good grief man, Vanderlai has at least 25 pounds on Carlos, and all muscle at that. I don't think Carlos vs. Vanderlai would be a competative match.

bad grammar. Just for the record, carlos is an awesome fighter

just Brian

11-17-2003, 09:59 PM

littlechamp1

11-18-2003, 09:12 PM

makavelli

11-18-2003, 09:16 PM

he's a great fighter, but if you say he's a legend then matt hughes must surely qualify for that spot. he did beat newton twice and destroyed him the second time, but deespite that newton is top notch.

I don't think that means anything. Wanderlei has beaten Sakuraba 3 times, but most don't consider Silva a legend yet but many people believe that Sakuraba is the greatest fighter in mma history even with those losses.