What do you think Vitor or Couture???? [Archive]

robbypark

11-24-2003, 07:51 PM

Don't worry, I can understand you just fine.

Randy Couture will still be the Light Heavyweight Champion after UFC 46. That's not to say that Vitor Belfort doesn't stand a chance, but in his recent past, Vitor hasn't show that he can even compete let alone win against a guy of Couture's calibur.

crucible

11-24-2003, 08:03 PM

I say Vitor has a good chance because he's the best striker Couture has ever faced, but I still think Randy will pull off the win in a hard fought victory.

sabre

11-24-2003, 08:37 PM

I say Vitor has a good chance because he's the best striker Couture has ever faced, but I still think Randy will pull off the win in a hard fought victory.

randy allready beat the phenom in his heyday before all the broken hands. and best striker? better then maurice smith or pedro rizzo? no randy will win this fight.

crucible

11-24-2003, 08:53 PM

DaBigHurt

11-24-2003, 10:10 PM

Well guys like i said be4, i think vitor is better than hes ever been, but i also think Randy is on top of his game, i think hes better then when he was 25!, but then again, vitor is a much maturer fighter, remember their last fight? Vitor was out of breath like in 5 min. Im not saying that Randy is gonna embarass him like he did to Ortiz, but i also dont think that Vitor is just gonna pound him into submission, he respects Randy too much, and where theres Respect theres a little fear. So i gotta give this one to Randy, even tho i would like Vitor to win. Couture takes it by decision.

Iron Maiden

11-24-2003, 10:39 PM

I'm going to say Randy in a dominating performance. I see the fight going all 5 rounds and Randy winning by Judges decsion.

just Brian

11-24-2003, 10:43 PM

How will this fight go?

Two words: Randy kicks Vitor's ass!

Cbear

11-25-2003, 12:18 AM

I'm predicting Randy to win and it to be a good fight. But...I never would have thought he would have been so dominant against both Tito and Chuck. Could he embarrass Vitor as well?

robbypark

11-25-2003, 01:08 AM

How will this fight go?

Two words: Randy kicks Vitor's ass!

Two words eh...? :wink:

D241

11-25-2003, 01:36 AM

if anyone can beat randy now, i think it's vitor or vanderlei, but i think randy will win

Ring Girl

11-25-2003, 03:19 AM

I pick Randy! (surprise, surprise! :lol: )

Seriously though, even if Vitor has improved greatly over the years, as his proponents claim, it's not as if he's going to have changed his entire style and mentality. He is still at this essence, Vitor. And Randy, too, has blossomed over the years - more than any of us could have imagined.

Randy's always been an expert at clinch fighting, but in the old days he used to take a lot of damage getting to that position. Randy doesn't take nearly the damage he used to in his recent fights. He's perfected getting into the clinch and his boxing skills are technical as hell. Most of all, Randy's mental game is the best in the sport - Team Quest has it down on how to walk in the Octagon confident and execute a game plan.

Not saying Vitor won't be a challenge, but Randy has a lot of expertise and skill when it comes to dismantling strikers.

themunchies

11-25-2003, 03:42 AM

Couture is the perfect counter-striker fighter. Aside from Cro Cop, I think Randy can beat any striker in the world.

sabre

11-25-2003, 05:57 AM

Although I do believe Vitor will lose, saying that Maurice Smith and Pedro Rizzo even come close to Vitor in striking ability is appalling. Maurice Smith should not even be in the equation. He was a good striker in the times of the terrible fighters and he can't even come close to being comapred with todays elite.

but vitor has broken his hands what 3 times in fights he is no longer the striker he used to be. he's afraid of breaking them again.and even in the day when he was THE striker in the ufc and he was knocking out everybody that was put in front of him ( even a vanderlei silva early in his career) randy beat him at his own game. now since then randy has gone on to win the heavyweight belt twice and now the light heavyweight belt by beating the best compitition out there. who has vitor beaten lately and how does he qualify as one of the best strikers ? i have all of the ufc's and pride's on tape give me a recent fight when vitor showed he is one of the best strikers out there against quality comp. i'd like to watch the fight again. thanks

tom_dot_com

11-25-2003, 08:24 AM

Vitor can not knock Randy out. If Pedro Rizzo didn't Vitor won't. Pedro is one of the hardest punchers ever to fight in UFC. Just to comment i don't think Vitor's broken hands has effected his striking that much. He still looks as fast as ever.

Vitor is going to have to use his jui jitsu skills. Vitor is incredibly fast on the shoot. I think he can get the shoot in on Randy.

This is where Randy has suffered. When he is on his back he has had a hard time. If Vitor can take Randy down and rain down his punches he could pull of a win with ref stoppage.

Pedro Rizzo had Randy on his back in their first fight round 2. They were both bloody messes. (Still one my favorite fights)

Yes Vitor look horrible against Chuck, a fight he took on 3 weeks notice after being in active for over a year. He still happened to get two double leg takedowns on Chuck liddel who has great takedown defense. But Vitor didnt' capitalize and let Chuck get up. He was rusty and I think Vitor would waste Chucky now.

Logic says Randy should win. The guy is unstoppable right now. But i think Vitor will pull this one of. He said he has been waiting 6 years for the rematch.

So i am going to go against the tide and pick: Vitor Belfort

Ring Girl

11-25-2003, 12:08 PM

Vitor is going to have to use his jui jitsu skills. Vitor is incredibly fast on the shoot. I think he can get the shoot in on Randy.
This is where Randy has suffered. When he is on his back he has had a hard time. If Vitor can take Randy down and rain down his punches he could pull of a win with ref stoppage.

Yes Vitor look horrible against Chuck, a fight he took on 3 weeks notice after being in active for over a year. He still happened to get two double leg takedowns on Chuck liddel who has great takedown defense.

Ahh, yes, Vitor's mysterious jiu-jitsu skills.

Your argument sounds very much like those made by Tito fans prior to UFC 44. Does that mean that you think Vitor has better take-downs than Tito? You think it's viable that Vitor can actually get Randy down and keep him there? Or by using Vitor get Chuck down as an argument, that Chuck's take-down defense is equivalent or better than Randy's?

I think Randy's take-down defense is better than Chuck's -- he demonstrated that shooting in on him was pretty futile against Tito, and Vitor's certainly not going to try to out Greco Randy. Randy also demonstrated in the Tito fight that he was not about to be held down by Tito -- do you think Vitor could out wrestle Tito, and therefore Randy?

Hannibal_JSayto_Lecter

11-25-2003, 01:50 PM

I like Vitor, he is one of my favorites figthers, but Randy too. Randy is awesome, one of the best in the history.

But I really think that Vitor will win.

I know that Randy defeats Vitor in the past. But Vitor is best figther than he was.

But one thing is true that figth will awesome.

tom_dot_com

11-25-2003, 01:52 PM

Ring girl You bring up a lot of good points. Tito relies quite a bit on getting his takedowns from the clinch. This did prove futile against Randy who can not be beat in the clinch. I do think Vitor would have a faster double leg or single leg takedown. Tito tried one against Randy but Randy was against the fence.

I do think Vitor can get the takedown on Randy. As for keeping him there you bring up a another good point. Can Vitor keep him there? Randy being on his back has got him into trouble before. It's possible.

Back to Randy vs Vitor #1. Vitor was out muscled by Randy.

They both were HW at the time. Vitor was a very small HW. Belfort barely had to drop any weight to get into LHW. Randy had to drop about 25lbs.

Randy weighs about 25 pounds less , Vitor weighs about 5 pounds less.

Now would Vitor's new Muay Thai skills help him in the clinch?

Force

11-25-2003, 02:46 PM

I don't think Couture will be in too bad a shape if he is on his back. He was on his back against Tito and was able to turn it around pretty quick. I would think Tito would be tougher from the guard or mount than Vitor will be so I would expect Couture to get out of that position against Vitor. Right now I believe Couture will physically dominate every 205 lb fighter in the world on the ground and from the clinch. Vitor has to maintain distance and try to catch Randy with a flurry of punches like only Vitor can release!! If he catches Randy at all he will have to go for the kill either via takedown or try to finish it with strikes. This will be an awesome fight but I like Couture's experience, physical strength and stamina to prevail.

Ring Girl

11-25-2003, 03:15 PM

Back to Randy vs Vitor #1. Vitor was out muscled by Randy.

They both were HW at the time. Vitor was a very small HW. Belfort barely had to drop any weight to get into LHW. Randy had to drop about 25lbs.

Randy weighs about 25 pounds less , Vitor weighs about 5 pounds less.

Actually Vitor was at his heaviest when he fought Randy -- he weighed about 230lbs and was using steroids (which was the reason he and Carlson had the falling out). In fact people usually make the opposite argument to yours, that Vitor lost to Randy because he was too big and sluggish for his own good.

Now would Vitor's new Muay Thai skills help him in the clinch?

I can't decide on this one -- not sure if trying to play the clinch game with Randy is going to work for him or not. He might be able to get some shots in, but I can't see Randy allowing him to stay in the clinch if he's taking damage. He'll take it to the ground if it becomes dangerous and then we're back to Vitor's mysterious BJJ skills.

tom_dot_com

11-25-2003, 03:56 PM

I never knew that about Belfort's steriod use! I serious thought he was lighter that 230lbs back then. I should ahve done my homework!

I knew Carlson and Vitor had a falling out, i never knew it was about steroids.

I personally think if Vitor want's to survive he needs to stay out of the clinch. I think his muay thai skills may help him a little but Randy is the most dominate fighter in the clinch.

I guess this brings us back to his mysterious BJJ skills. Can they play a factor? Can Vitor's fast hands can Randy off guard?

Will Randy finally show us he is human and show some damn fatigue at 40 years old?!!!

nhbfan8080

11-25-2003, 04:01 PM

Actually Vitor was at his heaviest when he fought Randy -- he weighed about 230lbs and was using steroids (which was the reason he and Carlson had the falling out). In fact people usually make the opposite argument to yours, that Vitor lost to Randy because he was too big and sluggish for his own good.
I think Vitor didn't train properly for Randy too. I remembered he had s small confidence crisis and had to be coaxed out to the cage by his corner from the drssing room.

Vitor should have decent ground skills if he is a Carlson black belt. I'm curious to see how he's improved since his last match. I wouldn't write Vitor off at this stage..

robbypark

11-25-2003, 04:41 PM

I don't think you can really use their first fight as much of a standard for this upcoming fight. Neither fighter is exactly is exactly as they were when they first fought, so that fight doesn't mean too much in my decision.

With that said, I don't think Vitor is as good as he used to be, where on the other hand Randy Couture is as good as he used to be and In my opinion, in the prime of his career.

Ring Girl

11-25-2003, 04:59 PM

I knew Carlson and Vitor had a falling out, i never knew it was about steroids.

Yeah, FightSport actually did a whole profile of Vitor in their Oct/Nov issue (Rampage on the cover) and they talk about the steroid issue a little in there. I've read it other places as well -- apparently Carlson disagreed strongly with Vitor's training (or lack of) and the steroid usage and it caused a big rift between them.

Will Randy finally show us he is human and show some damn fatigue at 40 years old?!!!

Never!!! :D Randy's the man - can't wait to see him fight again - he amazes me more every time!

ACIDBATHBELFORT

11-29-2003, 10:39 PM

Im not sure who i predict will win this fight. Im fans of both fighters, although Vitor is my fave. Couture is the master of coming up with a gameplane to negate his opponets strengths and beat them at their own game. On the other hand, when Vitor is on, his hands speed and power are tough to deal with. The only thing i know for sure is it will be a great fight.