Sapp gets KOed by Sefo

[Luke]

:eek: This isn't good news for K-1. There biggest draw now has back to back bad losses. I never saw the fight, I read the result on touchofevil.us, but any way you slice this, Bob Sapp's drawing power has been hurt a lot in his past two fights.

[guyincognito]

:eek: This isn't good news for K-1. There biggest draw now has back to back bad losses. I never saw the fight, I read the result on touchofevil.us, but any way you slice this, Bob Sapp's drawing power has been hurt a lot in his past two fights.
I thought I read that he quit mma. Is he back fighting again on a regular basis? Maybe all his non mma related activities fell through...

[just Brian]

Sapp's 15 minutes were up about the time Fujita kicked him him in the head for the fourth time. So all I can say is "oh well" :rolleyes:

[Lefty]

it may not be good news for k-1, but it's great news for the die hard k-1 fans of the pre-sapp era. sapp is finally being exposed for the sham he is. great to hear sefo's back in form. any info on how he won (specifics!)

[Luke]

it may not be good news for k-1, but it's great news for the die hard k-1 fans of the pre-sapp era. sapp is finally being exposed for the sham he is. great to hear sefo's back in form. any info on how he won (specifics!)

Its not good news for anyone. K-1 was headed out of business before Bob Sapp came along. Bob Sapp made everyone in that company a lot of money. K-1 doesn't have another box office draw to replace him. If I were a diehard K-1 fan, I wouldn't be happy at all.

[Lefty]

i disagree luke. if bob sapp is all it takes to make k-1 successful, then let it burn. if the top strikers in the world like lebanner,hunt,filho,aerts,sefo,ignashev, hoost etc cant draw sales, k-1 doesnt deserve to have those fighters. (thats probably why many fighters like hunt,mirco,leko etc have left for greener pastures)

i would like to hear from some from some of our japanese k-1 experts. is k-1 really in trouble without bob?

[Luke]

Lefty, Sapp saved that company, they were burning down before Sapp got there.

My point was that K-1 needs a drawing card because K-1's business has been built around the monster tv ratings that Bob Sapp has brought in. I'm not saying the other fighters are insignificant, they're not, its just none of them have proven to draw.

Hulk Hogan was never the best technical wrestler, but he drew money, and everybody knew it, and nobody would ever have said that pro wrestling would have been better off without him. To say that K-1 and MMA business in Japan would be better off without Bob Sapp is ridiculous. Bob Sapp allowed so many other fighters to make a lot of money.

[Luke]

i disagree luke. if bob sapp is all it takes to make k-1 successful, then let it burn. if the top strikers in the world like lebanner,hunt,filho,aerts,sefo,ignashev, hoost etc cant draw sales, k-1 doesnt deserve to have those fighters. (thats probably why many fighters like hunt,mirco,leko etc have left for greener pastures)

i would like to hear from some from some of our japanese k-1 experts. is k-1 really in trouble without bob?

Hunt, Leko, Mirko, all left for more money from Pride. I'm confused by one of your statements:

"If the top strikers in the world like lebanner, hunt, filho, aerts, sefo, ignashov, hoost, etc. can't draw sales, K-1 doesn't deserve to have those fighters."

What do you mean? If those fighters don't draw, then they don't draw. Its not necessarily K-1s fault. Some fighters just aren't charismatic enough. They're still a big part of the promotion, they're just not box office draws.

[guyincognito]

Hulk Hogan was never the best technical wrestler, but he drew money, and everybody knew it, and nobody would ever have said that pro wrestling would have been better off without him.
I'll say it now then. Pro wrestling would be better without Hulk Hogan IMO. It got tiring watching him in the eighties win over and over again. His refusal to job was so annoying I couldn't watch. Sure they made tons of money but I preferred the wrestling of old than what it's become. Give me the old NWA or Stampede Wrestling any day and I'd be tuning in on a weekly basis. Now I only watch once in a while. Now all the other promotions are out of business and WWF has a monopoly. Not good at all.

[Luke]

Yes, Hulk Hogan did not put over enough younger talent as he got older, and yes a lot of people got tired of him. But for a long time, people paid to see him. He made WWF a ton of money. There is no way that you can say wrestling would have been better off without Hulk Hogan. He made everyone a ton of money, and put wrestling on the map in the 80s.

[Cbear]

They have killed the goose that laid the golden egg. Bob Sapp made a ton of money for K-1, Pride and Pro Wrestling and drew monster tv ratings. But, they Sakuraba'd him (worked him to death) and burned him out. From what I understand he was scheduled for a long layoff after the Sefo fight, but they shouldn't have let him do this fight as it really does hurt him. The obvious booking should have been Sapp disappears for a year after Fujita to rest, recover and train, then come back with the big push that he is refocused and ready to roll. Fans would have the curiosity factor to see if he could do it. Of course he would have been doing all the movies lined up in the meantime and training still wouldnt be on the menu most likely. If ever there was a fighter that should have been groomed and protected, it was Sapp. In small doses he was entertaining and drew a ton of money. Instead of being used as a special attraction, they worked him to death. Looks like the money train has now run off the rails. In 6 months we will have a clearer picture of the effect on K-1 ratings and how this will have hurt them.

Guy/Luke, as for rasslin, I too was a territory/NWA guy who thought Hogan was the bane of the devil. But the reality was he generated more money than anyone before him and most of them combined. He made Vince Jr super rich and the other wrestlers in the company did benefit financially from being on the same shows as him as their payoffs were better. For all of us who liked the Flair/NWA style, they financially weren't even in the same league of money producers. Hurts to say that, but its true. Steve Austin was the money machine part 2 that made McMahon super-super rich. Comparisons have been done as to live gate, ppv draw, merchandise between Hogan and Austin as they both did better in certain catagories. If I recall correctly, Austin was ahead slightly in inflation adjusted dollars. Rock was no 3 as a money machine but not really on Austin and Hogans level. Austins merchandise was unparalleled in the industry.

There is a possible lesson in the above Hogan/Austin example for mma. Before those guys, the promotions made money, lost money and got by. But, when they got lightning in a bottle with the right personalities it was unreal how fast they got popular and made huge money. If mma can just get lucky in the U.S. with the right guy, like Pride did with Sakuraba, it could have a tremendous difference. The crux of the situation is that person must be a superior fighter and win his fight over a long enough term to maintain that popularity. Very hard to do in todays very competitive mma world. The advantage of pro wrestling is you can protect the money draws and manufacture superstars. In mma, they have to carry their own weight and if the promotion pushes them to the moon but they lose, its trouble.

[guyincognito]

Guy/Luke, as for rasslin, I too was a territory/NWA guy who thought Hogan was the bane of the devil. But the reality was he generated more money than anyone before him and most of them combined.

If mma can just get lucky in the U.S. with the right guy, like Pride did with Sakuraba, it could have a tremendous difference. The crux of the situation is that person must be a superior fighter and win his fight over a long enough term to maintain that popularity. Very hard to do in todays very competitive mma world. The advantage of pro wrestling is you can protect the money draws and manufacture superstars. In mma, they have to carry their own weight and if the promotion pushes them to the moon but they lose, its trouble.
Sure they made a lot of money but that doesn't mean the product was better. I can say wrestling would be a lot better without Hogan because I feel wrestling was better before he came along and that's my opinion. If you mean better by financially, then yes, it's better. I'm talking better as to my preference. I know there will never be a Super J Cup here but it's gone completely the other way and it's not what I like. Cbear, I could do a dissertation to prove that Hogan is the bane of the devil. >-( The only good thing he ever did was Thunderlips and his heel turn.

Sounds to me like you're describing Rampage to a T. ;)

[Luke]

In some ways the wrestling industry was a lot healthier during the territory days. I'm too young to remember the territory days, so I don't really know what it was like. I would love to see more competition for WWE, but the standard has been set so high, that its going to be very tough. I don't just mean the in-ring product either, the production and presentation is just so impeccable, it'll be very difficult for a new promotion to match that.

The real "bane of the devil" is Vince Russo! >-( The best thing TNA could do would be to get rid of him. His involvement with that promotion is one of the main reasons I won't watch. I just can't stand the guy.

[Luke]

Zach Arnold's thoughts from PuroresuPower:

He lost against Ray Sefo.

I'm amazed at the lack of outrage there has been over the fact that K-1 management this last month has basically thrown Sapp on the proverbial train tracks and let him get run over. Did K-1 have a choice given the current circumstances with Sapp wanting to go to Hollywood? No. But guess what? They didn't have to book Sapp vs. Fujita on 5/22 in Saitama, either, and they did. We've seen from PRIDE management that fighters who have showed them box office bonanza with loyalty will get that in return (see: Sakuraba). However, the way that K-1 management got rid of Sapp as soon as they possibly could when he lost a no-win fight to Kazuyuki Fujita (who isn't a draw in Japan and has the hardest cranium known to man) and finished him off with a fight against Ray Sefo, someone with skills 10-fold of Sapp in legitimate kickboxing, is stunning. Yes, Sapp wanted out of fighting after the 5/22 Saitama fight. And yes, Sapp had to fight the 6/26 show due to a contract. But the way it was handled by K-1 was absurdly disloyal and dumb on a business-level.

After pushing and pushing and pushing Sapp onto the Japanese public for merchandise, for wrestling matches, for fights, he finally loses one MMA fight badly to a tough opponent and the next month it is all over. Sapp was getting tired of the fight scene before his 5/22 Saitama Super Arena fight with Kazuyuki Fujita, so imagined what he felt like going into the fight on Saturday with Ray Sefo. It would have been truly scary to have seen K-1 let Bob Sapp even get a normal training schedule for fighting, which he just never had.

And when it's all said and done, Sapp's last fight comes on a B-level show taping. Not Saitama Super Arena, not Yokohama Arena, not even buildings like Nagoya Aiichi's Rainbow Hall or Fukuoka Marine Messe. No, Sapp's last fight takes place in Shizuoka at the Ekopa Arena with little fanfare.

This is the difference between PRIDE & K-1 if it needed to be stated any more clearly. One understands how to book top draws, the other one clearly has no idea what the hell they doing from one minute to another and has absolutely zero loyalty to anyone at the top who even shows an ounce of being human as a fighter (see: Hoost, Sapp, etc.)

I don't hate K-1 or their office personally. I am confused as to why they continue to accept mediocre business practices and put themselves in a situation where they look secondary to PRIDE.

[Cbear]

Zack Arnold nailed it on K-1 just crapping all over their golden goose. I wonder if that fight was truly the end of Sapps contract with them and they were trying to destroy him so that if Pride went after him, he would be damaged goods? Sounds like it.

Guy, I agree with you on quality of wrestling 100%. I grew up on Jack Brisco and Dory Funk Jr doing 90 minute mat wrestling classics, so Hogan sucked for his total lack of skill. He was a money machine but horrible wrestler.

[Tony Montana]

That's good news to hear Sapp getting KOed again. One second he's talking retirement, the next second he's signed up to fight on the upcoming weekend's card. And against a quality opponent like Sefo of all people!

Sapp has probably reached the point where he doesn't give a **** about his record anymore. He just wants to complete his contract with K-1 and get the hell out of the sport.

One less spectacle. Good riddence.

[Shamrocked]

Sapp had no business in the ring with Sefo in the first place, and it is never good for anyone in the long run when a freakshow beats a legitimate athelete. Sapp drew crowds because of his size period. His chin and his heart were exposed long ago by guys like Hoost, Cro Cop and even Kimo. I sincerely doubt any real K-1 fans expected him to last against Sefo in the first place, so this really does little to tarnish K-1 anymore than their absurd matchmaking has already.

[Cbear]

That's good news to hear Sapp getting KOed again. One second he's talking retirement, the next second he's signed up to fight on the upcoming weekend's card. And against a quality opponent like Sefo of all people!

Sapp has probably reached the point where he doesn't give a **** about his record anymore. He just wants to complete his contract with K-1 and get the hell out of the sport.

One less spectacle. Good riddence.
I have to take off my moderator hat for this one. And Tonys a standup guy so he can handle it. :)

But, this post is bull****! Thats a pretty hateful post Tony....really. Lets look at the facts. K-1 recruited Bob Sapp into fighting in Japan. They threw him out there with zero training and against all odds, the big unskilled guy got over with the crowd and even put on a handful of impressive matches. By his contract, K-1 farmed him out to Pride and pro wrestling in addition to his regular K-1 fights. They put him on endless tv shows, media appearances and interviews. He did every damn thing they asked of him. And when he burned out his own candle at both ends and wanted out, K-1 fed him to Fujita and then the coup de grace of Sefo. So long Bob, don't let the door hit you in the ass. No thank you for the bank vaults of money he made them, just destroy him and send him packing. Bob Sapp worked a superhuman schedule for the better part of 2 years. He suffered a broken orbital bone from Mirco Crocop and came back early because his employer wanted him to. He has given K-1 and Japan his body and maybe his soul; and they used him up and trashed him when he could no longer carry the entire damn promotion on his back. Well, K-1 and every mma fan who ****s on a man for doing everything that Bob Sapp did is not only wrong, but hatefully wrong. He gave total loyalty and his all to K-1 and has been reviled for it. Shame on K-1. And shame on you knowledgable mma fans for hating the man.

[Cbear]

I hope Bob Sapp has a successful career in films. His experience with the sharks in mma certainly has prepared him for the sharks of Hollywood.

[Luke]

I don't think you can question Bob Sapps heart. The guy never had time to train properly, yet he still got in there and gave it his best. If that doesn't show heart, I don't know what does.

I don't see how anyone can say that Sapp being gone is good for anyone, or anything. The guy is the biggest draw that our sport has ever seen. He's allowed more guys to make more money than they would be making if he hadn't come along. Would the fighters that are going to Japan be getting paid the way they are if it weren't for Sapp? I highly doubt it. The guy might have been a bad fighter, but he made people money, and thats the point of this business.

I think people need to show a little more appreciation for what the guy did for MMA, instead of crapping all over him because he wasn't a great fighter. Would anyone be a great fighter, with his media schedule? I doubt it.

[Luke]

I have to take off my moderator hat for this one. And Tonys a standup guy so he can handle it. :)

But, this post is bull****! Thats a pretty hateful post Tony....really. Lets look at the facts. K-1 recruited Bob Sapp into fighting in Japan. They threw him out there with zero training and against all odds, the big unskilled guy got over with the crowd and even put on a handful of impressive matches. By his contract, K-1 farmed him out to Pride and pro wrestling in addition to his regular K-1 fights. They put him on endless tv shows, media appearances and interviews. He did every damn thing they asked of him. And when he burned out his own candle at both ends and wanted out, K-1 fed him to Fujita and then the coup de grace of Sefo. So long Bob, don't let the door hit you in the ass. No thank you for the bank vaults of money he made them, just destroy him and send him packing. Bob Sapp worked a superhuman schedule for the better part of 2 years. He suffered a broken orbital bone from Mirco Crocop and came back early because his employer wanted him to. He has given K-1 and Japan his body and maybe his soul; and they used him up and trashed him when he could no longer carry the entire damn promotion on his back. Well, K-1 and every mma fan who ****s on a man for doing everything that Bob Sapp did is not only wrong, but hatefully wrong. He gave total loyalty and his all to K-1 and has been reviled for it. Shame on K-1. And shame on you knowledgable mma fans for hating the man.

Amen, Cbear. Show some appreciation people!!!!

[Luke]

Sapp had no business in the ring with Sefo in the first place, and it is never good for anyone in the long run when a freakshow beats a legitimate athelete. Sapp drew crowds because of his size period. His chin and his heart were exposed long ago by guys like Hoost, Cro Cop and even Kimo. I sincerely doubt any real K-1 fans expected him to last against Sefo in the first place, so this really does little to tarnish K-1 anymore than their absurd matchmaking has already.

So people who watch K-1 because of Bob Sapp aren't "real" K-1 fans? I don't mean to be disrespectful but some people need to get a ****ing clue!!! THIS IS BUSINESS!!! YOU NEED CHARISMATIC PERSONALITIES WHO PEOPLE WILL PAY TO SEE, IN ORDER TO MAKE MONEY.

When a phenom like Bob Sapp comes along, who captivates an entire country, you don't pass him up because his fight skills aren't world class. You take advantage of that popularity, and you push him to the moon. You protect him, you make sure he draws money for you for as long as possible. That may not sound "fair", but I guarantee there isn't a fighter in the world who would complain about fighting on the undercard of a Bob Sapp headline show because they know he's going to make them money.

[dogofwar]

**** Bob Sapp...you don't have to have any appreciation for him..

That's insane, I watched K 1 and Bob Sapp flat out break rules and cheat guys out of wins..

Kimo was treated about as badly as I have ever seen a fighter treated. **** that bitch, K 1 kept him around because they thought they were going to get a big pay off w/ Tyson. Now they realize Tyson is a flake and isn't going to fight. They threw him to the wolves..

Cbear your post is out of left field. People don't like Sapp because he is a joke and his presence in the sport brought the dignity down 10 notches; he was only there for profit. He has no technique, he had no heart, and no skill..

He was there because he is a big black dude and the Japanese fans loved him. That's all! I agree good riddance. His exit couldn't come fast enough.

[dogofwar]

So people who watch K-1 because of Bob Sapp aren't "real" K-1 fans? I don't mean to be disrespectful but some people need to get a ****ing clue!!! THIS IS BUSINESS!!! YOU NEED CHARISMATIC PERSONALITIES WHO PEOPLE WILL PAY TO SEE, IN ORDER TO MAKE MONEY.

When a phenom like Bob Sapp comes along, who captivates an entire country, you don't pass him up because his fight skills aren't world class. You take advantage of that popularity, and you push him to the moon. You protect him, you make sure he draws money for you for as long as possible. That may not sound "fair", but I guarantee there isn't a fighter in the world who would complain about fighting on the undercard of a Bob Sapp headline show because they know he's going to make them money.You need a clue....Shamrock's knowledge isn't questioned..

You aren't even fit enough to realize that this is an MMA forum and there is a forum called Boxing/Kickboxing..

Where did he say people who watch Sapp aren't real fans..he just said if you had a half a ****ing brain you would have known Sapp was going to get his ass whopped by Sefo.

[Luke]

My apologies, I got carried away. K-1 seems to get covered with MMA all the time, so I saw no harm in posting about K-1 in an MMA forum. Not to mention, Bob Sapp has faught in MMA before. If the rules are that strict I apologize again, for posting in the wrong forum.

[dogofwar]

Sapp quit in many fights, he cheated in many fights, K 1 cheated fighters in many fights. A lot of people are draws, half of Sapp's fights were against complete bums...the other he lost. Sapp has no talent and everyone knew it, he didn't have a clue on how to throw a punch..

He was a draw because he was a big black dude and they cheated for him to win. He was exposed many times and his popularity worn off. He sucks.

[Luke]

I will say that I don't think Cbear's post was out of left field. I think his point was that Bob Sapp doesn't get the respect he deserves for making an insane amount of money for a lot of people in a business that doesn't see much profit.

[dogofwar]

So what he made money, look how he got there..

By fixing fights, by breaking the rules, by K 1 cheating fighters, all done to try and keep Sapp winning. He made money and so did K 1, but they also cheated, rigged fights, and screwed guys out of wins. Soemthing to be proud of..

I say Bear's post is out of left field because Bear seemed to be a guy that likes honor w/ fighters, Sapp has none, and how many fighters were completely ****ed over so Sapp could keep winning?

[Luke]

Sapp quit in many fights, he cheated in many fights, K 1 cheated fighters in many fights. A lot of people are draws, half of Sapp's fights were against complete bums...the other he lost. Sapp has no talent and everyone knew it, he didn't have a clue on how to throw a punch..

He was a draw because he was a big black dude and they cheated for him to win. He was exposed many times and his popularity worn off. He sucks.

Who else is a draw in K-1? Like I said, he may have sucked, but phenoms like that don't come along everyday. So you make your money when you can. Thats how the fight game works. I'm sorry its not fair, but sometimes business isn't fair. I don't think many fighters in Japan are complaining about their pay cheques right now.

[Luke]

I don't just mean Bob Sapp personally, I mean K-1 as a whole, including the other fighters. I don't think fighters do this for honor, I think they do it for a payday. They have families to support.

[dogofwar]

He was only a phenom because they were cheating!!!!

Tito Ortiz could still be the **** if the UFC would have ****ed Randy and Chuck..would that make you feel better about Tito?

[Luke]

So what he made money, look how he got there..

By fixing fights, by breaking the rules, by K 1 cheating fighters, all done to try and keep Sapp winning. He made money and so did K 1, but they also cheated, rigged fights, and screwed guys out of wins. Soemthing to be proud of..

I say Bear's post is out of left field because Bear seemed to be a guy that likes honor w/ fighters, Sapp has none, and how many fighters were completely ****ed over so Sapp could keep winning?

Allowing Sapp to continue to win, also meant being able to continue to make money, not only as a promotion, but for the fighters as well. I know you don't agree, but fighters value their paycheque more than honor.

When you have a draw like that you protect him. Did K-1 go a little to far sometimes, yeah. But when you have a gravy train that big, you don't knock it off the tracks. Its business.

[Luke]

No, it wouldn't. You take advantage of the money fights when they come along. The key is not to let the fighters get too exposed. K-1 completely exposed Bob Sapp, and it wasn't necessary. Especially in his final two fights.

[dogofwar]

I don't just mean Bob Sapp personally, I mean K-1 as a whole, including the other fighters. I don't think fighters do this for honor, I think they do it for a payday. They have families to support.I disagree, it doesn't seem like you follow the sport very much, because most fighters wouldn't want to win like Sapp won..

And honor is a big thing, you don't see guys taking tons of cheap shots like Sapp did, you don't see guys flagrantly breaking rules like Sapp did. There is honor. If you don't know that, then maybe your the one that needs a clue..

Tell me Sak has no honor, or Nog, or Fedor, or Chuck Liddell, or Randy Couture, or Renzo Gracie, or Bas Rutten, the list goes on and on..

[dogofwar]

Allowing Sapp to continue to win, also meant being able to continue to make money, not only as a promotion, but for the fighters as well. I know you don't agree, but fighters value their paycheque more than honor.

When you have a draw like that you protect him. Did K-1 go a little to far sometimes, yeah. But when you have a gravy train that big, you don't knock it off the tracks. Its business.
This isn't wrestling, I can tell your a big fan, but it's not the same thing. You can't cheat, rig fights, and screw fighters so you can keep this overrated, overhyped scrub winning..

Not if you are a sport!

[Luke]

My point is just that K-1 and MMA wouldn't be better off without Bob Sapp because of the amount of money he made everyone. I just think that if for no other reason than that, he deserves some thanks from the fans and fighters. The guy did work a horrid schedule and he couldn't train properly, so if you gave him the schedule of any other fighter, he probably could have been half decent, if he had that time, he wouldn't have been as popular because he wouldn't have been making the media appearances.

Sorry this got so carried away, I do care about MMA, and I do follow it regularly. I'm limited in the number of shows I can see, but I'm on the websites all the time and I do enjoy posting on these types of message boards.

[PREDATOR]

I have mixed feelings about bob sapp

FIrst of all it pisses me off that a man with that much skill (fighting skills) becomes so popular. He made so much money in a sport where there are fighters who get paid ****. He made millions. He cheated in many of his fights, and was helped by k-1. I dont care who you are, you shouldnt be able to rob someone of a win. THis isnt pro wrestling where the outcome is determined before the fight.

ON the other hand i appreciate what bob sapp has done. HE has made k-1 a lot of money and thus help other fighters earn more money which they so deserve. He gets into a ring with barely any fighting experience or even training and slugs it out with top fighters. People will say thats brave of him, but he makes so much damn money that any other fighter would do the same. HE is making so much damn money. You cant blame sapp for jumping on the oppurtunity to make millions, it doesnt mean you have to like it.

[Luke]

This isn't wrestling, I can tell your a big fan, but it's not the same thing. You can't cheat, rig fights, and screw fighters so you can keep this overrated, overhyped scrub winning..

Not if you are a sport!

I know there not the same, but the philosophy for success is the same. Its harder to achieve in MMA because of the differences. You don't have the same amount of control, and if you try to control it, you destroy the credibility and legitimacy that you need to maintain.

The problem that MMA faces, IMO, is that because its so new it doesn't have the time to just develop because it costs so much more nowadays to run any sort of sport promotion or league compared to when the others sports got their starts. Also, fight sports are very different than team sports. Boxing isn't without their own problems when it comes to judging and worked fights and all that stuff. Look at De La Hoya/Sterm, its a tough call for promoters. But dollar signs mean a lot in todays society, and unfortunately fairness, honor, etc. don't mean as much.

[dogofwar]

I know there not the same, but the philosophy for success is the same. Its harder to achieve in MMA because of the differences. You don't have the same amount of control, and if you try to control it, you destroy the credibility and legitimacy that you need to maintain.

The problem that MMA faces, IMO, is that because its so new it doesn't have the time to just develop because it costs so much more nowadays to run any sort of sport promotion or league compared to when the others sports got their starts. Also, fight sports are very different than team sports. Boxing isn't without their own problems when it comes to judging and worked fights and all that stuff. Look at De La Hoya/Sterm, its a tough call for promoters. But dollar signs mean a lot in todays society, and unfortunately fairness, honor, etc. don't mean as much.
Boxing has a 1000 fights per year...of coarse there will be some bad calls..but they don't have a guy and say hey lets break all the rules for him, rig fights, screw fighters, just so he can win..

De La Hoya/Sturm was a close fight.

[Luke]

This isn't wrestling, I can tell your a big fan, but it's not the same thing. You can't cheat, rig fights, and screw fighters so you can keep this overrated, overhyped scrub winning..

Not if you are a sport!

I was a wrestling fan, I'm more of an MMA fan now. But I still believe that Wrestling101 works in MMA if you do it right, and that doesn't involve working or fixing fights, or screwing fighters, or any of that kind of stuff.

[dogofwar]

I was a wrestling fan, I'm more of an MMA fan now. But I still believe that Wrestling101 works in MMA if you do it right, and that doesn't involve working or fixing fights, or screwing fighters, or any of that kind of stuff.
Your wrong, and as your knowledge on MMA expands you will see it..

You can't have wrestling 101 w/out rigging fight or screwing people over, because MMA is real, and wrestling is not..

In real sports, you have to do it on your own sooner or later, and the guys that get all the breaks usually find themselves getting exposed sooner or later.

[Luke]

I do agree that some of the stuff that K-1 did for Sapp was wrong. They should have been more careful in how they booked him.

How would you have booked Bob Sapp? One day you stumble across this unbelievably charismatic guy who people just seem to fall in love with. What do you do? People want to see him fight, they're going to pay to see him fight. Do you just tell your audience no, because he's not good enough? They should not have broken and bent the rules the way they did, but those types of guys deserve to be protected, within the rules.

[Luke]

Well, as my knowledge of MMA expands, you expand your knowledge of Pro Wrestling, and we'll come to a middle ground, because there is one.

When I say Wrestling101, I just mean doing basic angles and promos to build fights, and if keeping a guy strong means feeding him a tomato can once and a while, then so be it. I'm not advocating fixing or rigging fights. Lets just be clear on that.

Also, ask Jeff Osborne if Pro Wrestling101 works, he'll say yes. He said it on SoundOff with Ryan Bennett. He didn't explain it very well, but he said it works because he uses it.

[dogofwar]

They protected him as much as you could do w/ any one man. **** he faught fat Sumos, scrubs, has beens, Sapp didn't have the talent to back up the hype and MOST everyone knew this guy was going to get exposed. You couldn't have given him a much easier schedule of opponents unless you wanted him to fight dead bodies..

Last summer K 1 came up w/ the idea of Sapp vs. Tyson and once they realized that wasn't going to happen, they gave up because the guy had to start fighting live bodies sooner or later.

[Luke]

It was a vicious circle, he may not have had the talent, but he never had the time to train to develop the talent. And once he starts having the time to train and develop the talent, that means his popularity is gone, and he's not going to draw anymore.

[dogofwar]

Well, as my knowledge of MMA expands, you expand your knowledge of Pro Wrestling, and we'll come to a middle ground, because there is one.

When I say Wrestling101, I just mean doing basic angles and promos to build fights, and if keeping a guy strong means feeding him a tomato can once and a while, then so be it. I'm not advocating fixing or rigging fights. Lets just be clear on that.

Also, ask Jeff Osborne if Pro Wrestling101 works, he'll say yes. He said it on SoundOff with Ryan Bennett. He didn't explain it very well, but he said it works because he uses it.
That is not pro wrestling 101. That's showmanship..

I have been watching wrestling since I was a little kid. They are not the same and cannot be linked. Because one is real, you have upsets, the other is pre-determined..

The UFC and Pride and boxing have used promos and angles to build fights, such as bad blood fights, they created and angle around Randleman's dad passing away and the fight being on father's day. Nothing wrong w/ that..

But that is not want they did w/ Sapp, they flat out screwed guys, Sapp was such a dirty fighter w/ cheap shots, a hammer fists, and back hands, never warned, hammer fists on the ropes can really hurt someone badly.

[dogofwar]

It was a vicious circle, he may not have had the talent, but he never had the time to train to develop the talent. And once he starts having the time to train and develop the talent, that means his popularity is gone, and he's not going to draw anymore.
Why, Sak is an extremely popular guy...he trains..

Sapp didn't dedicate himself because he doesn't have the championship heart, when he gets hurt he either cheats to get DQ'd or quits..

He was only popular because he is such a big guy, Japanese already love black guys, Rampage, Goodridge, and Randleman are popular as well. Sapp was just so big, but he could have trained and developed if he had the will to be a fighter. Which he didn't. He is no credit to the sport.

[Luke]

Promos and angles aren't part of wrestling booking? Is that what you're saying?

[Luke]

Dude, his media schedule, IT WAS INSANE, he really didn't have time to train. You should take a look at how many commercials and tv/radio interviews and all that stuff he was doing, it really was INSANE. I'm not exaggerating. Ask Ryan Bennett. He can shed some light on it, he talked all the time about how difficult it was schedule him for an interview because his schedule was so packed.

[dogofwar]

No, promo and angles are part, but not like a real sport..

You can't have Nog faking like he kidnapped Fedor's sister just to add drama to the fight...that's corny..

Wrestling 101 is good guy vs bad guy. That's what the wrestling was built on, the rest is part of the showmanship that helps, but the heart of wrestling, is good guy vs bad guy.

[dogofwar]

Dude, his media schedule, IT WAS INSANE, he really didn't have time to train. You should take a look at how many commercials and tv/radio interviews and all that stuff he was doing, it really was INSANE. I'm not exaggerating. Ask Ryan Bennett. He can shed some light on it, he talked all the time about how difficult it was schedule him for an interview because his schedule was so packed.
Dude, he had time to train if that was what his passion was...Sak has time to train, and he is the greatest MMA fighter of all time. Sapp was a character not a fighter. He would rather do commercials than train 4 hours a day.

[Luke]

I agree, Nog shouldn't do that. But what Nog can do is cut a promo about how great their fight is gonna be and how he is going to win. Thats wrestling101. Also, selling how Nog wants revenge on Fedor for how Fedor beat him for the belt a while back, thats wrestling101 too. Its just telling the story behind the fight. It doesn't have to be over the top, like kidnapping somebody's sister.

[dogofwar]

They do that, check out insidefighting they have interviews all the time..

They do tv shows to build the fight. But unlike wrestling, you don't always have that good guy vs bad guy element.

[Luke]

Dude, he had time to train if that was what his passion was...Sak has time to train, and he is the greatest MMA fighter of all time. Sapp was a character not a fighter. He would rather do commercials than train 4 hours a day.

I don't know, I think we're gonna have to agree to disagree, but I appreciate your willingness to argue your point. Normally on a messageboard you don't get to go back and forth like this, as if it were a chat. Its been cool though, I've enjoyed it. And believe me, I'm an MMA fan, I just haven't got the wrestling out of me yet. lol.

[dogofwar]

It's after 4 am and I am sitting here talking about Bab Sapp..my life has taken a wrong turn somewhere along the line..:-D

I'm going to crash.

[Luke]

They do that, check out insidefighting they have interviews all the time..

They do tv shows to build the fight. But unlike wrestling, you don't always have that good guy vs bad guy element.

Then thats great. They just need to do it in a forum where more people can see it.

[Luke]

BTW Dog, I totally respect your opinion. I hope you respect mine. I probably haven't watched as much MMA as many of you have, but I'm becoming just as big a fan.

[chosin]

Just curious, Luke. Where are you getting all your info that Sapp saved K-1? And how do you know about K-1 television revenue before vs. after Sapp arrived? In one post, you admit limited familarity with it, but then you're citing K-1's television receipts and their financial health.

Also, don't kiss Dog's ass (enough people already do that), and then say, "I hope you respect my opinion." Pandering, and makes it sound like you yourself don't have much confidence in your perspective.

[chosin]

Another thing, K-1 events seem to do fine without Sapp.
K-1 Nagoya (without Sapp) significantly outdrew (attendance) K-1 Beast, which headlined Sapp. Additionally, last year's Final GP in Tokyo still sold out, guess what, without Sapp. They've been selling out the Tokyo Dome long before Sapp came along, and they'll continue well after he's gone.

[guyincognito]

Sapp quit in many fights, he cheated in many fights, K 1 cheated fighters in many fights. A lot of people are draws, half of Sapp's fights were against complete bums...the other he lost. Sapp has no talent and everyone knew it, he didn't have a clue on how to throw a punch..

He was a draw because he was a big black dude and they cheated for him to win. He was exposed many times and his popularity worn off. He sucks.
Is this the same Bob Sapp that nearly beat Nog, one of the best fighters in the world? Seems like he'd do much better in mma than k-1. Showed some talent in that fight. I'll haven't seen many of his k-1 fights. I wonder how he would do in UFC with the closer quarters of the octagon.

Fighters are protected in boxing for many years until they get enough experience and are ready to step up. Just look at Joe Mesi. Has he fought anyone decent? And yet there is this hype about him.

[Shamrocked]

So people who watch K-1 because of Bob Sapp aren't "real" K-1 fans? I don't mean to be disrespectful but some people need to get a ****ing clue!!! THIS IS BUSINESS!!! YOU NEED CHARISMATIC PERSONALITIES WHO PEOPLE WILL PAY TO SEE, IN ORDER TO MAKE MONEY.

When a phenom like Bob Sapp comes along, who captivates an entire country, you don't pass him up because his fight skills aren't world class. You take advantage of that popularity, and you push him to the moon. You protect him, you make sure he draws money for you for as long as possible. That may not sound "fair", but I guarantee there isn't a fighter in the world who would complain about fighting on the undercard of a Bob Sapp headline show because they know he's going to make them money.I like Bob Sapp. As I've stated before I'm one of the guys who enjoys the freakshow aspect of K-1 and MMA, but ultimately I don't think it draws over the long haul. What I meant by "real fans" are knowledgeble fans who follow the sport as opposed to the spectacle. I don't want to see Bob Sapp gone. I simply think that most true fans don't expect him to do much more than he's done, therefore it's not as damaging to his image or to K-1 as some people might lead you to believe.

[DaBigHurt]

Like him or Hate him, Bob Sapp has been one hell of a popular fighter, and that what a company like the UFC needs more of. I was never a big Bob Sapp fan, but boy did I love to see him get his ass kicked or kick ass. And im sure theres a million other people who feel the same way.

[Cbear]

Dude, he had time to train if that was what his passion was...Sak has time to train, and he is the greatest MMA fighter of all time. Sapp was a character not a fighter. He would rather do commercials than train 4 hours a day.
It doesn't appear Saku did nearly as much training as we would think. Dave Meltzer just had a piece on the Pride show and Saku v Schembri. He said that Saks knees had really been bothering him and he did very little training for Schembri. This has been the same scenario, especially the last year...year and half when Saku would be injured before virtually every fight. Sak would do interviews before the fight saying he is ok and training, then after the fight was over it gets reported he hardly trained and wasn't nearly as healthy as he said. What that means to me is that Saku is unbelievably talented to be able to do as well as he did (even in losing) by relying just on guts and raw talent while his opponents train their asses off.

On Sapps promo work, I do not know if all of it was K-1 contracted, but much of it was. So, in much of those non-stop appearances it was at K-1s behest. Once again Bob was simply doing what his employer told him to do. If folks want to hate K-1 or Pride for bringing in attractions then so be it. It just seems so petty to hate a guy who did every single thing asked of him, made everyone a ton of money and then gets cast aside like a worn out shoe when he can't go anymore. I have been equally as disgusted by Pride for using Saku up as fast as they can. Will they kick him to the curb someday after all the money and popularity he brought in? I know sports and entertainment are harsh on those past their prime, but there is a way to let legends wind down without cutting their legs out from under them.

The Japanese ratings numbers were just released for the Pride show and the Ogawa/Silva match blew everyone away followed by Hunt/Yoshida. I'll post the numbers if anyone wants, but I don't feel like going back and looking them up right now. The all time ratings winner was Sapp/Dolgrosun I think, followed by another Sapp match.

One other funny thing about people (U.S. fans in general) hating Sapp, how can anyone hate someone they can't even see? K-1 isn't exactly the easiest fight show to get. In fact, I don't get it at all. The only Sapp work I have seen is when ESPN shows clips at wierd hours or the misc fight clip. It isn't like he is being shoved down our throats.

[Cbear]

Boxing has a 1000 fights per year...of coarse there will be some bad calls..but they don't have a guy and say hey lets break all the rules for him, rig fights, screw fighters, just so he can win..

De La Hoya/Sturm was a close fight.
K-1 is really where everyone needs to lay the blame for the bad calls, breaking rules, etc....as you point out here. It has been reported that K-1 tells guys they are trying to push who aren't trained that if they get in trouble, go for an immediate disqualification rather than get destroyed. Sapp did this early on when he tackled a guy or something (bad memory here). Then someone else did it shortly after...was it the sumo guy or Botha? The blame lays squarely with K-1 as these guys are doing what they are told to do. K-1 needs to change their ways.

Dog, on your comment about me coming out of left field, I do much prefer the fighters of honor. Sapp isn't on my favorites list by any means. But, he gets reviled as the ruination of the sport when the blame needs to be firmly laid at K-1s feet. Looking at this strictly from an employment standpoint, Bob did every single thing his employer asked of him. They did not train him and worked him 24 hours a day like a pack mule. Rather than work on his skills and training, they manipulated some of the fights. When he crashed and couldn't go anymore they fed him to the wolves. Thats just about the worst employer you could work for. Bob Sapp was just a well paid pawn. K-1 is trying to carbon copy the freak aspect with sumos, Montanha Silva, Butter bean, and the boxers--none of which are working out very well. Pride has tried to get in on this with Giant Silva. Its not my cup of tea but they are hell bent on trying to remake Sapp 2, and thats not going to happen.

[dogofwar]

Sak may not have trained as hard for Schembri but Sak is at the tail end of his career. He isn't what he once was..

Here is my take on Sapp, of coarse K 1 gets the blame, but so does Sapp, because he didn't HAVE to accept all those bookings. He didn't have to accept every commercial, he could have said, "look, this is interfering w/ my training." but he didn't, you don't think K 1 wanted Sapp to be legit great, you think they would refuse to allow him to train? Sapp accepted them because Bob Sapp is a cartoon character and not a fighter..

Sapp wasn't any good, but it falls on Sapp for all his dirty tactics in the ring, it falls on Sapp for quitting fights, it falls on Sapp for getting DQ'd on purpose, it falls on Sapp for not doing any cardio and blowing up in 2 minutes..

For Sapp to be successful, K 1 HAD to protect him and screw over other fighters. If you can't do it on your own, I say good bye and don't let the door hit you in the ass.

[Luke]

Just curious, Luke. Where are you getting all your info that Sapp saved K-1? And how do you know about K-1 television revenue before vs. after Sapp arrived? In one post, you admit limited familarity with it, but then you're citing K-1's television receipts and their financial health.

Also, don't kiss Dog's ass (enough people already do that), and then say, "I hope you respect my opinion." Pandering, and makes it sound like you yourself don't have much confidence in your perspective.

You called my bluff on that one, I got caught up in the moment. I probably gaffed on a few things, not just that.

[DT]

You know what makes me laugh?

Is the fact that very few people here would have courage to face Sapp inside a ring. :cool:

[Luke]

I like Bob Sapp. As I've stated before I'm one of the guys who enjoys the freakshow aspect of K-1 and MMA, but ultimately I don't think it draws over the long haul. What I meant by "real fans" are knowledgeble fans who follow the sport as opposed to the spectacle. I don't want to see Bob Sapp gone. I simply think that most true fans don't expect him to do much more than he's done, therefore it's not as damaging to his image or to K-1 as some people might lead you to believe.

Yeah, now that I actually stop and think about it (amazing how much that works), your original post was probably pretty accurate, the drawing power of a freakshow like that is limited.

Hopefully K-1 gets back to promoting their core product, which is kickboxing, not freakshows. You take advantage of them when they come along, but you shouldn't go out of your way to find them.

[Luke]

Another thing, K-1 events seem to do fine without Sapp.
K-1 Nagoya (without Sapp) significantly outdrew (attendance) K-1 Beast, which headlined Sapp. Additionally, last year's Final GP in Tokyo still sold out, guess what, without Sapp. They've been selling out the Tokyo Dome long before Sapp came along, and they'll continue well after he's gone.

Since your in Japan, do you go to many K-1 shows? Just curious.

[dogofwar]

You know what makes me laugh?

Is the fact that very few people here would have courage to face Sapp inside a ring. :cool:What’s funny about that, you can't criticize someone..

Many people who criticize Mike Tyson wouldn't want to fight him, but that doesn't mean they are wrong either....does it? A lot here criticize Baroni and Tito and they would beat the **** out of you as well..what's the point?

I can't outhit Barry Bonds either does that mean I have no right to criticize the potential use of steroids?

I love how you used the word courage...pathetic is what I call it. You really offer nothing to this discussion or thread, I think most of you here are hypocrites, if you follow K 1 at all than you have seen Sapp cheat in the ring, use illegal strikes that could really injure someone such as grabbing them by the throat and landing hammerfists...w/ no warning from the ref..and you condone it, you defend it, but regularly insult Tito or Phil who hasn't done a 1/3 of what Sapp has..

If I were a professional fighter, which I am not, I would have no qualms in fighting Sapp since he loses or quits against virtually every decent opponent who has a pulse.

[Luke]

Dog, I agree that we have the right to criticize without actually getting in the ring with the guy. I've encountered that argument before about how if you haven't actually played the sport, you don't have a right to criticize. I disagree with that.

Although, I think Donna just finds it a little humorous that we get so into this kind of debate. I know I have read lots of threads that were debates about who the best pfp fighter is and how the rankings should look and all that stuff. I think it is kind of funny how riled we get about this stuff, and there's nothing wrong with that (getting riled about MMA), but sometimes it does sound humorous. Donna can correct me if I'm wrong.

[BruceLee]

Luke,

You're not gonna convince Dog that Sapp is not the scum of the earth. Like I said before, you either absolutley hate Sapp or you respect him and like him. There's no in between. But you know what either way, it's gonna end up causing discussion and interest in Sapp and K-1.

What we've also failed to mention is that K-1 and Pride are broadcast on National TV (the equivalent of NBC, ABC, CBS) in Japan live or the day after the event. Gate receipts and hardcore purists of MMA mean very little to these organizations. The bottom line is national television ratings and commerical revenue.

In alot of ways it's just like the NBA. The NBA would rather promote Jordan. Basketball purists might hate him because ref's give him every call, and he's allowed to carry the ball and push off on Byron Russell to hit the game winning shot to win the world championship. Or the NBA will promote a big market like NYC and have Larry Johnson getting fouled (but no call) and then taking two steps dribbling the ball and then setting up to hit a 3 point shot, and then blow the whistle and give the 4 point play in a pivotal playoff series. You talk about honor and purity in sports, I believe this is highly wishful thinking in something that never existed.

But, for the NBA it didn't matter what the purists thought, becuase a guy like Jordan would draw the mainstream audience who wouln't have a clue between the difference between travelling and taking a vacation. Which all translates into $$$$$$$$$$. Granted Jordan could back it up with a little help from his freinds (refs) but I don't see how that's any different then what K-1 was attempting to do. As they say on the streets, "don't hate the player, hate the game".

No one (mainstream Japan or the US) wants to see a pot bellied, goofy looking Ernesto Hoost who looks like he came out of the first round of Mike Tyson's Punch Out. That's not going to draw interest outside of the MMA purists. People want to see a superhuman Bear-like man such as Sapp either kicking someone's ass with his sheer power, or getting his ass kicked by a normal human using his brain and skill. It goes back to the days in England with the Bear and Lion fighting or the roman gladiators. Sapp was huge for MMA in Japan, this is undeniable. He has put MMA in good shape for years to come by increasing the fan base and making it mainstream. I suppose he's expendable now, like the helicopter guy in "Cliffhanger", but I respect a man with no training or experience who goes out there from day 1 and becomes a big punching bag for the elite fighters in the world. That's a lot more than I can say for that pansy ass poser who started his career fighting Tomato cans and retireing and unretiring and tapping at the first sign of trouble while calling himself Big Daddy when he's crying out like a little girl, "Mommy, Mommy", aka Gary Goodgridge.

The mere fact that we have 70 replies to the Sapp discussion just proves the point that whether you like him or hate him he draws attention and discussion. And as every promoter, agent and successful commisioner knows thats what generates $$$$$$$$$$$$$.

Personal I like Sapp. He doesn't come off as smug or with fake arrogance. He's self depricating and a hard worker. I think at this point he's lost his confidence. The eye injury he suffered against Mirko is also a problem, as you'll notice his right pupil never moves anymore. I think he's overcompensating by being overly protective about his eye, but he's in the wrong sport for that since every striker is going to go after that one chink in his armor. Also all his kickboxing training has actually hurt him at this point, as he gasses out too quickly becasue it takes too much effort to raise his leg over his fat belly. He needs to go back to the basics of just pure bum rushing and sheer power.

As far as the cheating and no counts. Hey if I had no training and was going up against a fighting machine, I'd cheat too. It would be natural instinct and survival. It's the refs job to call that stuff. At the same time (it just insenses the purists, so maybe it's a tactic to generate more HEAT, just like Ric Flair used to do in his prime, before he turned into this Classie Freddie Blassie looking guy he is now). As far as giving him extra time. That's K-1, and the refs. If anything it actually hurts Sapp because normally it'd be a TKO but it doens't matter how many times Sapp says "No mass", K-1's gonna drag his ass out there to get his ass kicked some more.

I wish the best for Sapp. He's a confused young man who suffers from depression who made somewhat of a name for himself. But with the amount of THG and steroids he's using, I really can't see him living for more than 4 years. Maybe I feel sorry for him, but he's a good genuine guy.

[Luke]

Good post. I guess I'm on the opposite end of the spectrum from Dog, I like Bob Sapp, if for no other reason than he's a character and a personality. If he had taken the time to train, I think he could have been a half decent fighter.

How do you know he uses steroids and suffers from depression? I hadn't heard about the depression before.

[dogofwar]

^^^^

Wrong, there is a third option..its the who gives a **** option. I don't hate Sapp, I don't know the man, but I do know he doesn't deserve respect or appreciation..

You are out of your mind if you are trying to compare Jordan to Sapp. Basketball fans love Jordan because he comes through in the cluch, he is a proven winner...a world champion...Sapp is none of those things..

Sapp was a fruad, a lowly skilled fighter who K 1 cheated for, who personally cheated, who DQ'd himself in fights to get out, who fought complete and utter no hopers and was beaten up in almost every step up..

Sapp is no Jordan. I love how you are rationalizing cheating, rigged fights, and Dq's as if it were nothing..

You know nothing about K 1 or sports to insult Hoost, a proven warrior, the most decorated fighter in K 1 and praise Bob Sapp..

Awhile ago someone post that this forum is going downhill and now I agree. Guys like IB Blazed are gone and replaced w/ guys like this. Hoost is a pot bellied scrub and Sapp is the answer.

[BruceLee]

Dog of War this is an A B conversation, maybe you can't read or listen. I had no beef with you, but don't be starting **** with me. As far as being rational or logical maybe you need to take a look at yourself:

"He was there because he is a big black dude and the Japanese fans loved him. That's all! I agree good riddance. His exit couldn't come fast enough."
Dog of War

That's a highly ignorant and irrational statement. And if you don't realize that then that's probably your main problem. There's no point in arguing with you because that statement speaks for itself about how you reason.

[dogofwar]

There is nothing ignorant about it...

The Japanese culture loves black guys, guys like Gary Goodridge is always a draw even when he was getting crushed. There was nothing irrational or ignorant about it. Bob Sapp was a draw because he was this big ass black dude that they tried to pass off as an ass kicker..

If it is an A B conversation, leave my name out of it. Got it junior?

[Luke]

I don't think the board is going downhill. This is the best board I've ever posted on. The board has been getting new members lately, which probably means some new opinions, but as long as the standard is upheld, the board will be fine.

[dogofwar]

Of coarse you don't you think MMA and wrestling are along the same lines. Plus I really wasn't referring to you, I was talking about the guy who insulted Ernesto Hoost and praised Bob Sapp. Hoost is a great warrior who is the one deserving praise..

That's the mentality of some guys, they don't know their history.

[Luke]

Yes, I know you weren't talking to me, but I just thought I'd say what I thought of the messageboard.

[Lefty]

holy ****! did this thread explode overnight.

one last comment to luke, you posted another thread asking info on andy hug.
any k-1 fan with kindergarden knowledge on the sport, know of him. no , i'm not calling you a kindergarden student, i'm just stating a point that you dont know **** about k-1. sapp may sell tickets, but eventually the "real" k-1 enthussiast(one who follows k-1 to the gates of hell, and loves it for the science of the striking arts), will want sapp to face "real" k-1 fighters. not jokes like seth petruzzi(whatever), a washed up sumo , or dancing bear. speaking of bears, cbear mentioned k-1 was "throwing sapp on the train tracks". maybe the "real" k-1 fan was growing weary of the BS circus and wanted to see if sapp was for real.

i always knew the people would eventually tire of sapp, k-1 must have sensed this. luke, k-1 cant be compared to wrestling because k-1 is an ultimate form of a "real" sport. until you 've seen some of k-1 earlier years, i dont think you have the expertize to judge it's condition. dave's wrestling observer does have great info, but you wont know until you've seen the **** for real.no disrespect intended, in fact, you did quite well against some of the k-1 lovers.

[DT]

I think most of you here are hypocrites, if you follow K 1 at all than you have seen Sapp cheat in the ring, use illegal strikes that could really injure someone such as grabbing them by the throat and landing hammerfists...w/ no warning from the ref..and you condone it, you defend it, but regularly insult Tito or Phil who hasn't done a 1/3 of what Sapp has..

Who are you directing these critics, dog?

If it is about me, please post links from whatever post I´ve done insulting any fighter. :rolleyes:

[dogofwar]

I directed them at people defending Sapp, while at the same time have a history blasting guys like Tito, Baroni, and Ryan Gracie..

Those guys may be arrogant but they aren't cheaters, I found it funny how many people were forgetting the fixed fights w/ Sapp, the illegal punches, and the fact that Kimo was robbed right in front of our eyes..

And now we should respect Sapp? If you aren't one of those people then I guess you are not who I'm talking about..

But your idea that people would be afraid to fight Sapp was pointless. I offer legit and real criticism.

[Iron Maiden]

I personally always thought he was overrated and I'm glad he is out of the game. Good riddance.

[Brock8]

Who says he's out of the game? When was this announced? Perhaps it's true, but I haven't heard anything about it.

I mean, he lost to Ray Sefo, maybe the best K-1 puncher ever--this isn't such a shameful loss, and he was competitive.

He also took a nasty groin shot. Honestly, if you take a good shot there, it's really difficult to recover. I remember Sefo taking a wicked groin strike from Hug, and though he continued, you could tell he wasn't the same fighter after the hit. I think Sapp would have still lost, but regardless, he's still competitive in K-1 and interesting to watch.

[Luke]

holy ****! did this thread explode overnight.

one last comment to luke, you posted another thread asking info on andy hug.
any k-1 fan with kindergarden knowledge on the sport, know of him. no , i'm not calling you a kindergarden student, i'm just stating a point that you dont know **** about k-1. sapp may sell tickets, but eventually the "real" k-1 enthussiast(one who follows k-1 to the gates of hell, and loves it for the science of the striking arts), will want sapp to face "real" k-1 fighters. not jokes like seth petruzzi(whatever), a washed up sumo , or dancing bear. speaking of bears, cbear mentioned k-1 was "throwing sapp on the train tracks". maybe the "real" k-1 fan was growing weary of the BS circus and wanted to see if sapp was for real.

i always knew the people would eventually tire of sapp, k-1 must have sensed this. luke, k-1 cant be compared to wrestling because k-1 is an ultimate form of a "real" sport. until you 've seen some of k-1 earlier years, i dont think you have the expertize to judge it's condition. dave's wrestling observer does have great info, but you wont know until you've seen the **** for real.no disrespect intended, in fact, you did quite well against some of the k-1 lovers.

Point taken. I'll try to see if I can find some K-1. How is K-1 an ultimate form of a "real" sport? I'm curious. Aren't all sports that aren't worked, real?

[DT]

http://www.mmaringreport.com/k1/k1_shizuoka/butterbean_silva.jpg

If you have Yakuza behind the scenary, what can you expect? Fair play?

[DT]

http://www.mmaringreport.com/k1/k1_shizuoka_review.htm

[shagul]

I directed them at people defending Sapp, while at the same time have a history blasting guys like Tito, Baroni, and Ryan Gracie..

I don't know exactly who you are talking about, but I agree that it would be strange to defend Sapp but blast Baroni. One reason might be that Sapp is no diva, he is known as being quite humble.


Those guys may be arrogant but they aren't cheaters, I found it funny how many people were forgetting the fixed fights w/ Sapp, the illegal punches, and the fact that Kimo was robbed right in front of our eyes..

It's true that he used illegal punches, and that is obviously a point against him. On the other hand I think he proved that he could fight by lasting as long as he did against Nogueira. He was also not afraid to fight Mirko, in fact he has fought a lot of quality opponents despite his "freak" status. I don't see why people call him "overrated" either, I don't think anyone here would have him in the top 20 or anything. You don't have to respect him of course, but I think that he proved that he could fight, and that he did his best.

[Todd25]

Didn't Sapp already start to lose his luster about a year and a half ago when Mirko beat him in the first round? So he'll probably be back, but without the unbeatable image he had going.

[Lefty]

Point taken. I'll try to see if I can find some K-1. How is K-1 an ultimate form of a "real" sport? I'm curious. Aren't all sports that aren't worked, real?
yes, all sports that are'nt worked are "real". I've always considered k-1 to be the toughest, most painful sport in the world. even fighters like maurice smith and frank shamrock have been quoted in the past as saying mma is easier to endure (in terms of pain) than k-1.(no i'm not saying k-1 is better, or mma is easier skill wise, so dont even go there:mad: ) for those who've only recently begun watching k-1 , i understand that may be hard to believe with guys like butterbean,giant silva and sapp.skilless freaks who only have size and odd dimensions.

not only is k-1 physically taxing, but the tyrants at the top (ishi) put their fighters through a VERY rigerous schedule. recently you may have noticed guys like alexy ignashev and remy bojaski have been fighting almost once a month. my guess is alexy's already fought at least six times since the start of 2004. no other combat sport in the world would push their fighters that hard. no wonder the life of the k-1 fighter is'nt that long. injuries begin mounting and you start getting "half a" fighters like sefo and filho who could be so much more if only they were'nt always hurt. if that aint "real", i dont know what is.

[Brock8]

Todd25 wrote: "Didn't Sapp already start to lose his luster about a year and a half ago when Mirko beat him in the first round? So he'll probably be back, but without the unbeatable image he had going."

He's never had an unbeatable image going. Hoost underestimated Sapp and paid for it, but since that dramatic example, no one has, and it's unlikely Sapp will win another fight against a seasoned K-1 fighter.

I mean, in his wins over Hoost, it was more Hoost's failure to maintain his low kicks and movement than anything Sapp did. Sapp's only weapon is his punches--and even then he probably has to get his opponent stuck in a corner--something he couldn't do against Bonjasky.

Still, even if Sapp never wins another K-1 fight, he can always take pride in his two victories over Hoost, perhaps the best K-1 fighter ever.

I think the Japanese fans have enjoyed Sapp's size and personality,
but the Japanese people I talk to realize that Sapp is a raw project and in is a different category than the typical K-1 fighter.

[themunchies]

I hope Sapp never comes back again..............ever!