Brett Favre Has Played in 200 Consecutive Games...

[themunchies]

Wow, the guy is an ironman for sure.

Will he retire as one of the greatest quarterbacks of all time?

[ACIDBATHBELFORT]

He shattered the record by 5 seasons! Without a doubt Favre is an all time great. First ballot HoF. Good thread munchies.

[BruceLee]

He's in the top tier.
You could make an argument that he was the best of all time but I think if a poll we're taken Joe Montana would win because of all the credentials and superbowls he's one (I never liked Joe Montana, but I respect the guy).

Top Tier: (no particular order)
Joe Montana (49ers)
Sammy Baugh (Redskins)
Otto Graham (Browns)
Brett Farve (Packers)
Johnny Unitas (Colts)
Bart Starr (Packers)
Terry Bradshaw (Steelers) (some would say he doesn't belong here, but 4 superbowls, cannon arm, I'd put him in the top although he wouldn't get my vote for best ever).

2nd Tier:
Peyton Manning (Colts) [could move up to 1st Tier, if he wins a super bowl]
Y.A. Title (Giants)
Steve Young (49ers)
Troy Aikman (Cowboys)
John Elway (Broncos)
Sid Luckman (Bears)
Len Dawson (Chiefs)

3rd Tier
Dan Marino (Dolphins)
Jim Kelly (Bills)
Fran Tarkenton (Vikings)
Ken Stabler (Raiders)
Dan Fouts (Chargers)
Joe Willie Namath (J.E.T.S.)

4th Tier
Tom Brady (Patriots)

5th Tier
Donovan McNabb (Eagles)
Michael Vick (Falcons)

[ACIDBATHBELFORT]

Marino and Elway are easilly first tier QBs. Honestly, both are ahead of Favre as well. Michael Vick isnt a top 50 QB YET. He is a lot to learn, but will be a good one in the future. Ill come up with my top 10 list later.

[forescore]

Favre good but one of the best of all time? Give me a break. He's like the Cal Ripken of Football, good but only because of his Iron Man status.

[ACIDBATHBELFORT]

Thats the furthest thing from the truth. Favre carried the Pack to the Super Bowl. He is without a doubt an all time great. Far from just a toughman. Favre did force a lot of passes and get interceptions. But many more times he made plays that lead them to wins. He is a great playmaker. Ill never forget a play he did. Im almost sure it was against the Vikings. They practically had him sacked, he wasnt even able to throw a pass. So he under handed a pass for a TD. Moss who is a great player and playmaker was laughing, shaking his head. Even the Viking players were cheering. Not many players could do something like that. Without Brett that team would have been avg, instead they were Super Bowl champs.

[ACIDBATHBELFORT]

1 Joe Montana
2 John Elway
3 Johnny Unitas
4 Dan Marino
5 Brett Favre
6 Otto Graham
7 Bart Starr
8 Roger Staughbach
9 Len Dawson
10 Sammy Baugh

To really be fair, it would be better to actually divide into eras. The passing game and rules have changed a lot. The QBs pre 1970 and the ones after.

[BruceLee]

I'll add Jim Kelly to the list (Jim Kelly the QB, not the guy with the Fro in Enter the Dragon). Probably 2nd Tier.

I only included those I think would be voted on as Best QB of all time in the First Tier.

Marino was good, but most voters would cut him out if they used Super Bowl Championships as a criteria. With Elway too (even though he won a SB at the tail end of his career), I don't think those two would ever be voted Best QB of all time in any poll over Montana, Graham, Baugh, Unitas. Graham dominated during the Browns heyday, and Baugh played defense and punted too on top of his domination of the QB position.

Really it depends what criteria we look for in greatest QB. Is it the difference in dominace between the QB and the rest of the league during his era? Championships? Pure Stats (which will always favor the modern QB because we play 16 games from 14 games from 10 games a season).

There's always a tendency to annoint the modern players as the greatest. As much as I hate to admit it, Jim Brown was probably the greatest RB ever. He was the size of an offensive lineman of his era and was faster then the fastest guys on defense, the CB. In this day and age that would translate into a RB who was 6-5 285 pounds running a 4.3 40.

NFL films annointed Emmit Smith the best back ever. Smith was really good, but there's no way he was better than Brown or Sweetness. Emmit had the benefit of a dominating offensive line, All-Pro QB and All-Pro WR to take the heat off him, plus a above average defense for most of his career. Really there's no way to evaluate these polls but that's part of the fun of it.

I'm sure if Marino were in a different system, with a different coach who wasn't at the tail end of his career, maybe things would've been different and he would've won some Super Bowls. But as it is, his lack of superbowls seriosuly handicap him when choosing the greatest QB ever.

[BruceLee]

Sammy Baugh

"In 1943, Baugh was the only player (and will be the only player ever) to lead the league in passing, interceptions and punting. He held every NFL passing record when he retired with 21.886 yards and 187 touchdown passes and is still in the record books with a completion percentage of 70.3 in 1945 and 51.4 yard punting average in 1940."

Sammy Baugh is number 3 all time for college players in this one poll

http://www.collegefootballnews.com/Top_100_Players/Top_100_Players_3_Sammy_Baugh.htm

[themunchies]

*still waiting for somebody to mention Troy Aikman*

[ACIDBATHBELFORT]

Bruce had mentioned Aikman. I see Aikman as a great QB, but Im not sure he would make my top 15. Very accurate guy and proven winner though. Bruce you make a lot of good points. Personally, I alwasy thought Emmit was somewhat overrated. Now dont take this the wrong way. He is the NFLs all time leading rusher, that speaks volumes. The man made the most of everything he was given, talent wise. Tremendous heart and perseverance. That being said, I always thougt that Emmit was a major product of his exceptional line. Barry Sanders would have rushed for 2,500yds easilly with those horses blocking for him. I also think Thurman Thomas was better than Emmit from that time period. I agree and I think its almost unanimous, Jim Brown is still the best back. Ill rank my RBs later on, its off to work right now.

[BruceLee]

I also think Thurman Thomas was better than Emmit from that time period.

There were two era's of Emmit. Great running back Emmit Era and Broken Down Emmit Era.

Great running back Era was during the Cowboy superbowl years, when Emmit didn't have any major injuries or wear and tear. Emmit was never a fast running back but he had decent speed to go along with his killer instinct for daylight. Maybe around a 4.4 yards per carry and 20 TD a year.

Broken Down Emmit Era went far too long. Maybe the last 8 years. Due to injuries and age he was a slow running back and was averaging anywhere from 3.7 to 4.0 yards per carry. Bascially he was a liablity that held the Cowboys back, but he would get enough carries to rack up 1000 yards a season. Looked good on paper but the fall off on his skills was dramatic during this period.

[BruceLee]

I don't have the time or know how to make a poll but someone should make a poll to see who we think the Greatest QB of all time is using the players Acid and myself have mentioned.

[ACIDBATHBELFORT]

1 Jim Brown
2 OJ Simpson....... like him or not, he was a GREAT runner
3 Barry Sanders
4 Eric Dickerson
5 Walter Payton
6 Emmit Smith
7 Marshall Faulk
8 Thurman Thomas
9 Tony Dorsett
10 Marcus Allen

[Rootsa]

Posting to the thread not greatest ever, Brett Favre did play in 200 Consecutive Games as a Starter but acouple of times he only took first snap then was out for rest of game, so to me this is watered down, but then again didnt Cal do that too!!

[BruceLee]

1 Jim Brown
2 OJ Simpson....... like him or not, he was a GREAT runner
3 Barry Sanders
4 Eric Dickerson
5 Walter Payton
6 Emmit Smith
7 Marshall Faulk
8 Thurman Thomas
9 Tony Dorsett
10 Marcus Allen


I take it these are in order.
I think Payton was better than Eric Dickerson by Far. Dickerson Fumbled too much and was an all or nothing back, much like Barry Sanders but Barry Sandres was amazing on his feet.

Other than that looks about right. Longevity in running backs is a thing of the past. Hard to pinpoint any running backs who can dominate for more than 4-6 years. I'll post my list later.

[ACIDBATHBELFORT]

Good point on Dickerson and Payton. Dickerson was the bigger play guy, but Payton was more consistant. Plus Payton had great hands. So I agree with you. Payton over Dickerson.

[BruceLee]

List of My Favorites top 10
1 Walter Payton
2.Gale Sayers
3 Barry Sanders
4 Jim Brown
5 OJ Simpson
6 Tony Dorsett
7 Marshall Faulk
8 Emmit Smith
9 Corey Dillon
10 Earl Campbell

Top Ten Greatest Objective
1 Jim Brown
2 Walter Payton
3 OJ Simpson
4 Barry Sanders
5.Tony Dorsett
6. Bronco Nagurski
7 Emmit Smith
8 Marshall Faulk
9 Joe Perry
10 Eric Dickerson
11 Marcus Allen

* Curtis Martin (I hate to see this guy here because I've never liked him with his career 4.0 avg, but he's leading the league this year at 4.6 and he's been fortunate enough to avoid major injury. I've always considered him a medicore back, but he might just sneak into the record books with a couple more good years)

[don king]

Marino was good, but most voters would cut him out if they used Super Bowl Championships as a criteria.
Didn't Trent Dilfer win a Super Bowl? By that criteria, Barry Sanders was a second tier running back. Football is a team game, and to diminish someone's accomplishments because they played on a crap team shows a total lack of understanding the game.

[BruceLee]

Didn't Trent Dilfer win a Super Bowl? By that criteria, Barry Sanders was a second tier running back. Football is a team game, and to diminish someone's accomplishments because they played on a crap team shows a total lack of understanding the game.

Actually, you're wrong. Don't take an extreme example that has nothing to do with the criteria we're using.

Dilfer did win a superbowl but that's it, he never domianted or had any longevity of dominating. Jud Buchler won a NBA world championship that doens't mean squat. No one's saying that winning a championship is the only criteria we need in judging players.

When you're comparing the greatest players in the game at their position, championships are inevitably going to be factored in as one of the criteria. All other things being equal the guy who won more super bowls is going to have an edge over the guy who hasn't.

Sure Archie Manning could have been one of the greatest QB's ever, coudl've if he played on a winning organization, but the reality is he didn't, and he will never go down in history as the greatest quarterback ever.

Keep in mind the question we're asking, before starting to nitpick over non issues.

[don king]

When you're comparing the greatest players in the game at their position, championships are inevitably going to be factored in as one of the criteria.
Your number 3 and 4 running backs never won a championship.



Keep in mind the question we're asking, before starting to nitpick over non issues
Teams win championships, not individuals, especially in football. The Dilfer example is admittedly extreme, but I don't get where the nitpicking is. Besides, your list is a joke. Joe Perry's not even a top ten guitar player, never mind football. ;)