Should Barry Bonds' Home Run Records Be Stripped?

[robbypark]

What do you think? Should Barry's 73 homerun record be stripped, or at least marked with an asterisk? If Barry manages to break Hank Aaron's all time HR record, should it contain an asterisk? What should Bonds' homerun total be at right now since he has admitted to using steroids?

[kai]

in short? YES

[Cbear]

I consider his record the same as ill gotten gains. Strip him and give the record to whoever is behind him and put a big asterisk by Bonds name. Steroids are against the rules just as a corked bat is. If the homerun record is won with a corked bat and its discovered, surely they cancel it. My only problem is that the last few years have been rife with steroid use so do we need to just wipe away all records from the 90's forward? :eek:

[BruceLee]

I consider his record the same as ill gotten gains. Strip him and give the record to whoever is behind him and put a big asterisk by Bonds name. Steroids are against the rules just as a corked bat is. If the homerun record is won with a corked bat and its discovered, surely they cancel it. My only problem is that the last few years have been rife with steroid use so do we need to just wipe away all records from the 90's forward? :eek:

Yes. Anybody who uses Steroid should be erased from the history of baseball. Their image should be blotted out like in the old WWF videos (Because of the World Wild Life Fund) and replaced with a stick figure that has a dunce cap saying I'm a big idiot.

Ben Johnson was erased by the Olympic Committee.

They should send the ignoramous Bud Selig to jail for promoting home run ball so heavily and turning a blind eye to the steroid use. The system was flawed and he is a big reason for all the abuse. A strong and independent commssioner like David Stern or Pete Rozelle would never tolerate this.

On the other hand Acid is right, if we ban all players who take Steroid, Creatine and HGH, the homerun king would be Ichiro, because that's all that would be left.

Jose Canseco was right. I can't wait to read his book.

[themunchies]

On the other hand Acid is right, if we ban all players who take Steroid, Creatine and HGH, the homerun king would be Ichiro, because that's all that would be left.


I've got no problem with that :)

[Cbear]

Yeah, I have no problem with it either. Babe Ruth and Mickey Mantle might have been booze hounds but they didn't take shots in the a*s to get those hits.

[ACIDBATHBELFORT]

Thank you Bruce, this is FAR bigger than Bonds. Since he isnt a liked player he takes the brunt of it though. Im sure McGwire wasnt using just andro products, but because he is a great person and well liked people shrugged it off. Players have always done what they can to get an advantage, this has gone on since sports started and will always go on. Its the sad facts, but the truth nonetheless.

[themunchies]

this is precisely why we should all admire players like Ichiro. Baseball has always been a game where bigger and stronger guys dominate. Now with steroids the guys are only getting bigger and stronger!!! But look at Ichiro. At 5'9, 160 lbs the guy is the best overall player in all of baseball and also a guy you can guarantee is not taking nor will ever take steroids.

If parents want a player for their kids to look up to, it's Ichiro.

[SanLuis97]

At 5'9, 160 lbs the guy is the best overall player in all of baseball and also a guy you can guarantee is not taking nor will ever take steroids.

Ichiro is a great player, but he isn't the best overall player in the game. However, undisputedly, he is the best singles-hitter in the game. With Bonds discredited, Albert Pujols has been the best player in baseball. His numbers thus far are on par with Ted Williams and Joe DiMaggio.

[chosin]

I consider his record the same as ill gotten gains. Strip him and give the record to whoever is behind him and put a big asterisk by Bonds name. Steroids are against the rules just as a corked bat is. If the homerun record is won with a corked bat and its discovered, surely they cancel it. My only problem is that the last few years have been rife with steroid use so do we need to just wipe away all records from the 90's forward? :eek:

Sammy Sosa was caught using a corked bat. Now what we'll never know is how long was he actually using them before he was caught. Should all of his HRs be wiped out? And how many other players use them and never get caught?

[themunchies]

Sammy Sosa was caught using a corked bat. Now what we'll never know is how long was he actually using them before he was caught. Should all of his HRs be wiped out? And how many other players use them and never get caught?

They checked all 70 of Sosa's bats right after that incident.(he was never given any type to cover up his bats) They only found one bat out of all them that was corked and that was the one he used in that one specific game. Sosa sais that he mistakenly took his batting practice bat and used it in the game and in this case, I'm inclined to believe him.

[chosin]

They checked all 70 of Sosa's bats right after that incident.(he was never given any type to cover up his bats) They only found one bat out of all them that was corked and that was the one he used in that one specific game. Sosa sais that he mistakenly took his batting practice bat and used it in the game and in this case, I'm inclined to believe him.

Yeah, I remember his story, but I guess I remain skeptical. It's tough for me to believe any professional athlete these days.

[themunchies]

Yeah, I remember his story, but I guess I remain skeptical. It's tough for me to believe any professional athlete these days.

same here man, especially with the confessions of Jason Giambi and Barry Bonds.

[SanLuis97]

Something to think about as we're discussing "cheating" in baseball.

From Peter Gammons, ESPN.go.com

"It is comical to read outraged comments about "cheaters." There are anywhere from four to 10 pitchers in the Hall of Fame who cheated in some form or another; Gaylord Perry wrote a book about it. The 1951 Giants cheated to help them win the Miracle of Coogan's Bluff. Corked bats predate the Eisenhower administration. Do we want to get into amphetamines? How many players damaged their eyes or their stomachs with red juice in the 1960s and 1970s?"

[kai]

Peter Gammons has always been a Barry Bonds nuthugger. We're talking about the 3rd most prestigious record in baseball here and also about Bonds chasing the 2nd most prestigious record in baseball which is the all time homerun mark. He cheated and he should stripped of any of his records. Worse yet, he lied for a long time about it and is still lying to this day by saying he didn't know they were steroids.(which is obviously bull****)

[SanLuis97]

First off, can we find another term instead of "nuthugger?" It's ridiculous how often that word gets thrown around.

Second, I think Gammons is one of the most credible baseball writers there are. He knows and respects baseball history. I don't think he's sticking up for Bonds but simply trying to put things into historical context and thus expand the discussion.

[kai]

yeah but, then again, as we all know, you love Bonds and will defend him to a tee even when there is nothing he should be defended for.

[SanLuis97]

yeah but, then again, as we all know, you love Bonds and will defend him to a tee even when there is nothing he should be defended for.

I'm not attempting to defend Bonds. I just like a rational discussion about steroid/performance-enhancing drug use and how baseball will deal with it.
And I do think it's appropriate and beneficial to examine cheating in a whole throughout baseball history. MLB has a mess, and I doubt the abilities of its current leadership to fix it. Maybe they need to hire David Stern.

Regarding cheating in general, as long as there are professional sports, athletes will always looking for an advantage whether it's within the rules or not.

[kai]

and like I said, this is a single case that transcends all others. Previously, people thought that Bonds was the premier homerun hitter of our era which has now been proven to be untrue. Due to help from roids he's got the single season homerun record(3rd most prestigious) and is likely going to get the all time homerun record.(2nd most prestigious)

Whether anything happens to Bonds' records or not, this will taint his legacy forever. Bonds will forever be remembered foremost as the man who took steroids and not as a great homerun hitter. It's just like Pete Rose. To this day Pete Rose is mostly well remembered for gambling on baseball rather than his all time hit record.

[ACIDBATHBELFORT]

Once again, the inicdent with Sosa proves my point. Most people are quick to forgive Sosa because of his smile and charm. Bonds was always a great player, before the juice. Sosa was avg, he was also definitely juicing. The records will be there, but Id say put an asterik. Whats bad though, is Sosa, MrcGwire probably wont have asteriks by their numbers as well. They were both juicing as well. Each had their numbers sky rocket as well. Its obvious, the large majority are using.

[Cbear]

How many players damaged their eyes or their stomachs with red juice in the 1960s and 1970s?"
What is red juice?

[Solaris Flare]

I would like to know that too. The only red juice I know is kool aid.

[robbypark]

Bottom line is that Bonds was averaging 35 homeruns a year before the juicing. After the juicing, Bonds is averaging 52 homeruns a year.

[ACIDBATHBELFORT]

So true, no doubt the juice made Bonds that much better. The same can be said for many other players during that time period. As well as many of the newer, younger stars as well. HR in general have been sky rocketing. I dont know why you only go after Bonds, when its MLB as a whole.

[forescore]

So true, no doubt the juice made Bonds that much better. The same can be said for many other players during that time period. As well as many of the newer, younger stars as well. HR in general have been sky rocketing. I dont know why you only go after Bonds, when its MLB as a whole.

probably because Bonds gets all the media attention, fame, and money that he doesn't deserve.

[ACIDBATHBELFORT]

And none of those other guys get the fame, money, and attention. Its not just Bonds here thats juicing, open yall eyes for a just a second here. Dont let your hate for Bonds cloud your judgement that damn bad.

[Shamrocked]

Without a doubt that prick should be stripped.

[Cbear]

If you are anti-juicing you have to be against everyone, not just Bonds and I suspect everyone is. Bonds is just a polarizing figure that makes it easy to throw stones at. I'd like to see all sports take a firm no-juice standard and just start over. There are enough wannabees out there to replace the billionaire players 3 times over and we might even try to lower the prices of arena costs to fans a bit.

If mma truly tested 100% and started right now with surprise tests, it would be most interesting who is positive. While I might have suspicions that Silva is getting raw rabies virus injections for hostility, I also wouldn't be surprised if Sakuraba has enough cortisone and other 'sones' in his knees to mix concrete. I've no idea what passes or fails in the juice department out of cortico-steroids so this is just all guesses.

[Brock8]

If you are anti-juicing you have to be against everyone, not just Bonds and I suspect everyone is. Bonds is just a polarizing figure that makes it easy to throw stones at. I'd like to see all sports take a firm no-juice standard and just start over. There are enough wannabees out there to replace the billionaire players 3 times over and we might even try to lower the prices of arena costs to fans a bit.

If mma truly tested 100% and started right now with surprise tests, it would be most interesting who is positive. While I might have suspicions that Silva is getting raw rabies virus injections for hostility, I also wouldn't be surprised if Sakuraba has enough cortisone and other 'sones' in his knees to mix concrete. I've no idea what passes or fails in the juice department out of cortico-steroids so this is just all guesses.
Yeah, if PED (performance-enhancing drugs) are vastly consumed in baseball, then I'd bet use is crazy within K-1 and Pride.

[ACIDBATHBELFORT]

Very well said Cbear. Finally someone making sense here. It seems like Bonds is the only one that they are attacking. Most of the younger stars and many vets are just as guilty.