Catch Wrestling, Shooters, Hookers, Rippers and legit tough guys in pro wrestling

[Cbear]

MMA and Pro Wrestling. Linked in many ways yet denied by fans who don't know the history and background and how the paths crossed or the sport evolved from the business that evolved from the sport. The two biggest paths of modern professional MMA are the Gracie created UFC in the United States and the various Japanese organizations such as Shooto, Rings, Pancrase and Pride. All have ties to the professional wrestling world.

Carlos and Helio Gracie were taught by Mitsuo Maeda who did pro wrestling in addition to being a Judoka and no holds barred prizefighter. Thus, Gracie Jui Jitsu would not have existed without a pro wrestling, prize fighting Judoka who trained them. There would be no UFC without the Gracie family.

Ad Santel was a Catch Wrestler and pro wrestler who fueded with Japanese Judokas from the Kodokan from 1914-1921 where he beat a 4th degree black belt, a 5th degree blackbelt and drawing with another 5th degree blackbelt. The Japanese were fascinated by the submission moves from Catch Wrestling. Later Karl Gotch, another Catch Wrestler and Pro wrestler was a big influence (and trained some) of the men who started Shooto, RINGS, Pancrase and Pride FC. The Japanese called Gotch the God of Pro Wrestling and his influence on all aspects of pro wrestling and MMA in Japan was profound.

Catch Wrestling was the basis for much of what became shoot fighting and many pro wrestlers were Catch Wrestlers, Shooters, Hookers and Rippers.
Here is Catch Wrestling--
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catch_wrestling

Here are the differences in Hookers, Shooters and Rippers--
http://farmerburns.com/hookers.html

[Cbear]

Here are a few individuals from the 1900's up through modern times who were pro wrestlers, Catch Wrestlers, Hookers, Shooters, Rippers and of their influence.

Mitsuo Maeda—trained Carlos and Helio Gracie and is the godfather of what became Gracie Jui Jitsu. Once faced a Capoeira fighter, Pe de Bola and Maeda allowed him to use a knife. Maeda won. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitsuyo_Maeda

Farmer Burns—one of the earliest of the Catch Wrestlers and a legit hooker. His training regime influenced many real wrestlers who came later. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Farmer_Burns

Danny Hodge—perhaps the greatest true talent of all time, silver Olympic medalist in wrestling, tremendous NCAA history, pro boxing, pro wrestling and tough as nails. Its my belief had mma been around in his day he would have been a monster.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Danny_Hodge

Ed Strangler Lewis—hooker and very influential in pro wrestling, he was also the mentor to Lou Thesz. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ed_Lewis_%28wrestler%29

Lou Thesz—hooker who was one of the most respected champions ever as a legit grappler/hooker both in the U.S. and Japan.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lou_Thesz

John Pesek—hooker who came out of the carnival era and didn’t like when it morphed from real fights to worked. He was a policeman for Strangler Lewis and got banned by the NY Athletic commission for beating an opponent so severly. He was one bad man. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Pesek

Frank Gotch http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_Gotch

Karl Gotch—probably the most responsible for taking Catch Wrestling to Japan and teaching the pro wrestlers the style which would eventually morph into Rings, Pancrase, Shooto and Pride. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karl_Gotch

Judo Gene Lebell-- this guy did it all, judo champ, pro wrestling, knew Bruce Lee & Chuck Norris, movie roles, stuntman and can still probably kick any of our butts if he wants to.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gene_LeBell

Dory Funk Sr.—hooker with amatuer wrestling background who went on to run his own territory and is the Father of Dory Jr. and Terry Funk.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dory_Funk

Hiro Matsuda—hooker and territory policeman who broke Hulk Hogans leg when he wanted to get into pro wrestling. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hiro_Matsuda

Earl Caddock
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earl_Caddock

Billy Robinson—hooker and Catch Wrestler who came out of Englands Snake Pit. Was part of one of the famous pro wrestling stories when he got into a barfight with Chief Peter Maivia (grandfather of The Rock) and they ended up taking out the front window and Maivia gouged out one of Robinsons eyes out of the socket ending the fight. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Billy_Robinson

Joe Stetcher-- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Stecher

Ad Santel—early Catch Wrestler who beat Japanese Judokas. He was a pioneer and skilled fighter. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_Santel

Current pro wrestlers with amatuer wrestling credentials include Kurt Angle, Brock Lesner, Shelton Benjamin, Bobby Lashley, Sylvester Terkay. MMA fighters who have done pro wrestling matches include Kazushi Sakuraba, Mirko Crocop, Bas Rutten, Mark Coleman, Kevin Randleman, Mark Hunt, Ken Shamrock, Don Frye, Nobuhiko Takada, and many others. Even Russian Olympic wrestling legend Alexander Karelin did a match against Akira Maeda.

[BruceLee]

This should be in the MMA forum since it MMA related. I bet BulldogWrestler would love this.

Where's The Dynamite Kid?

[Cbear]

This should be in the MMA forum since it MMA related. I bet BulldogWrestler would love this.

Where's The Dynamite Kid?

Thanks for the props. I purposefully put it here since I expected some of you to add to it and drop in names I forgot (Such as Dynamite or Steve Regal). Also, I think some of our hardcore mma members are about ready to mutiny if one more pro wrestling comment is made, regardless of how legit it is. My intent was that the next time a member goes into denial of the mma/pro wrestling history, I would simply post a link to this thread and they can read up if they care to know. I do think Bulldog might find some of the history and characters interesting since he has personally met Judo Gene Lebell.

Dynamite as well as Steve (Sir William) Regal did indeed come out of Englands toughest training schools. Regal did carny matches taking on challengers for money.

[BruceLee]

Thanks for the props. I purposefully put it here since I expected some of you to add to it and drop in names I forgot (Such as Dynamite or Steve Regal). Also, I think some of our hardcore mma members are about ready to mutiny if one more pro wrestling comment is made, regardless of how legit it is. My intent was that the next time a member goes into denial of the mma/pro wrestling history, I would simply post a link to this thread and they can read up if they care to know. I do think Bulldog might find some of the history and characters interesting since he has personally met Judo Gene Lebell.

Dynamite as well as Steve (Sir William) Regal did indeed come out of Englands toughest training schools. Regal did carny matches taking on challengers for money.

Yeah Dynamite was from Robinson's Snake Pit up in the Liverpool-Mancheser North England Area. As was his cousin Davey Boy Smith.

[ilostmydog]

I can't believe you made this thread and didn't mention Josh Barnett once....

For shame Cbear, for shame.

[Cbear]

I can't believe you made this thread and didn't mention Josh Barnett once....

For shame Cbear, for shame.

That was a gimme for you. Good call.

Funny enough, Minowaman always claims to be a pro wrestler yet he has never done a pro wrestling match. Likewise, now also have Meyhem Miller fighting for pro wrestling (possibly due to Barnetts influence) and he has certainly not done a pro match. Some who have done pro matches would rather forget it and some who have never done one, claim it. Strange world.

Most have forgotten Tank Abbotts run in WCW. Eric Bischoff actually wanted to make him world champion but I believe he was gone before it happened.

[ilostmydog]

Nah, Minowaman is 'the REAL pro wrestler,' not just some ordinary pro wrestler.

[Cbear]

Nah, Minowaman is 'the REAL pro wrestler,' not just some ordinary pro wrestler.

Thats the whole deal with early badasses like Joe Pesek. Their idea of "pro" was they were best, not that they were worked. They didn't like the evolution of real to worked at all. For others, the idea of going "pro" simply meant the evolution of the business into the most profitable form of all where showmanship and promotion was more important than real fight training.

[BruceLee]

Funny enough, Minowaman always claims to be a pro wrestler yet he has never done a pro wrestling match. it happened.

Wait. Minowa has never been in a Pro Wrestling match? He has only done MMA?