Sode Guruma/Ezekiel Choke Question

[Wahoo08]

So at the risk of this thread falling in to the black hole known as the "Grappling Forum", I'd like to see if I could get some feedback from the more experienced grapplers here.

One of my favorite front chokes, and the one I've had the most success with, is sode guruma jime (also known as an Ezekiel Choke). I've pretty much self taught myself this one by watching videos online, as it's a choke none of my Judo instructors have ever brought up (not sure why; I've had way more success with this one than any other front choke).

Now, I've always done it by grabbing the sleeve of my front arm (i.e. the one going across the throat) with the hand of my arm that is behind the head. However, I've also seen it done the opposite way- using the front hand to grab the gi of the arm that is behind the head (if you Wikipedia Sode Guruma Jime, the photo they use is this way of doing it).

Any thoughts on the two variations?

[BruceLee]

So at the risk of this thread falling in to the black hole known as the "Grappling Forum", I'd like to see if I could get some feedback from the more experienced grapplers here.

One of my favorite front chokes, and the one I've had the most success with, is sode guruma jime (also known as an Ezekiel Choke). I've pretty much self taught myself this one by watching videos online, as it's a choke none of my Judo instructors have ever brought up (not sure why; I've had way more success with this one than any other front choke).

Now, I've always done it by grabbing the sleeve of my front arm (i.e. the one going across the throat) with the hand of my arm that is behind the head. However, I've also seen it done the opposite way- using the front hand to grab the gi of the arm that is behind the head (if you Wikipedia Sode Guruma Jime, the photo they use is this way of doing it).

Any thoughts on the two variations?

in B) (opposite way) what is the bottom hand doing?

Just thinking about it intutively it would seem that the bottom hand should grab the sleeve so that the top hand can pressure down on the neck.

In B, I guess both hands would have to be grabbing the Gi and then your wrists and forearms kind of rotate.

Yoshida had a great sode guruma jime. Used it to win vs Tamura and won vs Royce Gracie (though this was disputed by Royce. I'm still not sure how Royce was gonna get out of it though even if he wasn't out).

Koji Komuro also has a DVD on the sode guruma and entries into the sode gurmua from the Komlock (which is basically a whizzer/overhook).

[telerion]

So at the risk of this thread falling in to the black hole known as the "Grappling Forum", I'd like to see if I could get some feedback from the more experienced grapplers here.

One of my favorite front chokes, and the one I've had the most success with, is sode guruma jime (also known as an Ezekiel Choke). I've pretty much self taught myself this one by watching videos online, as it's a choke none of my Judo instructors have ever brought up (not sure why; I've had way more success with this one than any other front choke).

Now, I've always done it by grabbing the sleeve of my front arm (i.e. the one going across the throat) with the hand of my arm that is behind the head. However, I've also seen it done the opposite way- using the front hand to grab the gi of the arm that is behind the head (if you Wikipedia Sode Guruma Jime, the photo they use is this way of doing it).

Any thoughts on the two variations?

I love this choke! The affair started about 4 years ago when after a very long tournament I was in the semifinals of the absolute division. The opponent that I faced was a couple weight classes up from me. Somewhere early on I ****ed up a throw and he scored a takedown. When he couldn't crack my defense (more to do with his inexperience than my skill) he made it clear he was going to stall out and wait for time to expire. Now I had seen this choke in judo class, but like you say, it's often forgotten. Fortunately, I had just been scoping it out on YouTube the day before. So with like a minute to go and me stuck in half guard, I snake my arms around his neck and Yahtzee! He struggled for about 3 secs before tapping.

Since then I have used it in BJJ and judo tournaments (especially judo because you don't get much time to set stuff up, you can hit it from about anywhere, and judo guys often aren't paying attention). In bjj now, I have to be a bit more subtle, but I still get it. My favorite (and this has won me a lot of matches) is when I'm inside the closed guard mid to late part of a match. I'll purposefully break posture and put my head in his chest or side of his face. Then I'll wheeze (if I'm not already) to play like I'm out of gas and ideas. I swear a lot of people will pause to think or take a break and open their neck up. That's when I strike hard. Almost 100% success, and the only time it failed was because I got lazy and let him roll up and pull out.

By the way, the technique above is what you refer as type 1 (bottom hand grabs sleeve, top hand goes across throat).
I like to hit type 2 when I'm struggling to choke from back mount. Maybe he's fighting my hands or has his chin tucked to well or I can't reach his collar or lapel right. I snake my hands to one side of his neck, grab the sleeve, and then bring the sleeve arm behind his head. Usually I slide my body to the side of the arm grabbing the sleeve so that I can put the choking arm all the way on that side of his neck.

Love both of those moves so very, very much.

[telerion]

in B) (opposite way) what is the bottom hand doing?

Just thinking about it intutively it would seem that the bottom hand should grab the sleeve so that the top hand can pressure down on the neck.

In B, I guess both hands would have to be grabbing the Gi and then your wrists and forearms kind of rotate.

Yoshida had a great sode guruma jime. Used it to win vs Tamura and won vs Royce Gracie (though this was disputed by Royce. I'm still not sure how Royce was gonna get out of it though even if he wasn't out).

Koji Komuro also has a DVD on the sode guruma and entries into the sode gurmua from the Komlock (which is basically a whizzer/overhook).

Clearly I must check out this DVD.

[spasgur]

Yoshida had a great sode guruma jime. Used it to win vs Tamura and won vs Royce Gracie (though this was disputed by Royce. I'm still not sure how Royce was gonna get out of it though even if he wasn't out).

I just watched that. Couldn't the referee just wait until Royce was out? Otherwise he could just stop fights all the time when a choke is being applied, tap or no tap.

[Wahoo08]

I just watched that. Couldn't the referee just wait until Royce was out? Otherwise he could just stop fights all the time when a choke is being applied, tap or no tap.

If I remember correctly, the referee thought Royce was out (Yoshida appears to be telling the ref this as well). This led to the rematch, which was officially ruled a draw, as per the specials rules they used, there were no judges. Since the fight went the distance, it was automatically ruled a draw. If there were judges, it would more than likely have been scored in Royce's favor.

In general, I'd rather see an early stoppage than a late one, but chokes are probably the one exception. Unlike a joint lock or strikes, there isn't any proven long term damage from being choked out. If a fight wants to go out, I say let him.

[Wahoo08]

in B) (opposite way) what is the bottom hand doing?

Just thinking about it intutively it would seem that the bottom hand should grab the sleeve so that the top hand can pressure down on the neck.

In B, I guess both hands would have to be grabbing the Gi and then your wrists and forearms kind of rotate.

My thoughts as well, Bruce.

Type 1 (as Teleriom put it) seems to be much more powerful than Type 2. I'm thinking though, that with Type 2, it may be a bit easier to get the arm across the throat. Usually when I can't lock in the choke, it's because my front arm is a bit restrictive in movement due to my sleeve being held by my other hand. I can't really slide it under across the throat without letting go of my sleeve. With Type 2, it seems like you can more focus on getting your front arm in position for the choke, then worry about securing your rear arm across the back of the neck.

Not really sure though. I'm basically thinking out loud here. It'll give me something to experiment with though.

[Wahoo08]

By the way, the technique above is what you refer as type 1 (bottom hand grabs sleeve, top hand goes across throat). I like to hit type 2 when I'm struggling to choke from back mount. Maybe he's fighting my hands or has his chin tucked to well or I can't reach his collar or lapel right. I snake my hands to one side of his neck, grab the sleeve, and then bring the sleeve arm behind his head. Usually I slide my body to the side of the arm grabbing the sleeve so that I can put the choking arm all the way on that side of his neck.

Love both of those moves so very, very much.

I think I've attempted this choke from almost every position except back mount. I've just always went for a RNC or Okuri Eri Jime. Next time I have back control though, I'm going for Sode Guruma.

[BruceLee]

Clearly I must check out this DVD.

Was that necessary?

Well this has become an unpleasant place. It's a Shame really.

[Wahoo08]

Was that necessary?

Well this has become an unpleasant place. It's a Shame really.

Huh? What'd I miss???