The Trayvon Martin spectacle

[Cbear]

If something happens to Zimmerman then what? Are Spike Lee, Rosanne Barr, Al Sharpton, jesse Jackson and the New Black Panther Party going to be prosecuted for inciting violence? Will they be charged at all? Dan says the Panthers dont have 10 bucks so it doesnt matter but thats short sighted. If you owe a bookie for gambling losses and dont have the money to pay up, does that exempt you? No, it does not as your broken knee caps will attest. Charles Manson didnt kill anybody but is doing life for inciting others to commit murder--and thats exactly what the Panthers are doing with their bounty.

[danl08]

From reading the transcript it appears he was following the kid to give cops the location of the kid. That's not unreasonable at all. And also from the transcript it sounds like shortly after hte dispatcher said "we don't need you to do that" he quit following and returned to his car to meet the police. And that lines up with his story.

Zimmerman had no way of knowing if the kid was a criminal or not. He's neighborhood watch, probably familiar with who belongs in the neighborhood and who doesn't. He saw a guy that he's never seen before, walking by himself between houses. That's suspicious and what do cops tell you to do when you see something suspicious in the neighborhood? Call the cops. Zimmerman never brought up his dress or race in any way except to describe Martin to the dispatcher. We don't know that he wasn't in danger. From what the eyewitness said it very much sounds like he was in danger. At the very least he was getting his ass kicked as the kid had a dominant position and Zimmerman was screaming for help. Whether he felt like his life was in danger or not, only Zimmerman knows. His side of the story is the kid said words to the effect of "you're going to die now" and reached for the gun. If that happened then Zimmerman was completely justified. There is no evidence to suggest that didn't happen.

I assume you have never been a part of a NW program before or you'd know how completely wrong that statement is. I ran our NW program (fairly large community in MD) and I can tell you that you are instructed to never follow people. The NW program in general are very well aligned with the local police. In our case we had the police chief and others at our meetings on a regular basis. They also ran all of my block captains through a special training program. The bottom line is that if you see something you are always instructed to call the police and wait for them. You never engage a person regardless of how "suspicious" they look. What this guy did was wrong on many levels in that respect.

In terms of whether this is racism....... I happen to agree that if this were a white kid walking home from the store with a soda and a bag of Skittles he probably wouldn't have ended up being harassed by this guy and eventually shot dead. You can make an argument that its not racism and plenty of people are arguing that it is. The real problem is that Zimm decided that this kid was bad because of how he looked, not based on his actions and that is wrong to do. Trayvon was walking through people's backyard because he didn't want to take the long way to get to the house. What should have happened was that someone should have told his Dad that they would appreciate it if he didn't go through their yards. Thats how neighbors act.



FWIW I am completely and totally disgusted by Spike Lee and his ilk. What he did is heinous and possibly criminal in nature. He has always been an ass clown, but this takes it to an entirely different level.

[Cbear]

Two other points. What a bunch of poosy neighbors George Zimmerman had for not going out and getting involved to break things up when there was clearly someone (Zimmerman by all accounts) screaming for help. That "Im not getting involved" mentallity disgusts me. There are tons of stories of people raped, beaten and killed right in front of people and they just walk right over them and leave them to die. Recently in Houston (vid was on the net) an elderly black WWII vet was car jacked in a gas station parking lot--several people watched and did nothing. The man crawled with his broken leg to the cashier as people walked right by him. Disgusting.

And how would you feel to have a stranger or anyone walking around your house at night? They would find me in their face in a heartbeat--in fact, I done it. You dont go messing around in other peoples property. Ever.

[Guilty]

I assume you have never been a part of a NW program before or you'd know how completely wrong that statement is. I ran our NW program (fairly large community in MD) and I can tell you that you are instructed to never follow people. The NW program in general are very well aligned with the local police. In our case we had the police chief and others at our meetings on a regular basis. They also ran all of my block captains through a special training program. The bottom line is that if you see something you are always instructed to call the police and wait for them. You never engage a person regardless of how "suspicious" they look. What this guy did was wrong on many levels in that respect.

In terms of whether this is racism....... I happen to agree that if this were a white kid walking home from the store with a soda and a bag of Skittles he probably wouldn't have ended up being harassed by this guy and eventually shot dead. You can make an argument that its not racism and plenty of people are arguing that it is. The real problem is that Zimm decided that this kid was bad because of how he looked, not based on his actions and that is wrong to do. Trayvon was walking through people's backyard because he didn't want to take the long way to get to the house. What should have happened was that someone should have told his Dad that they would appreciate it if he didn't go through their yards. Thats how neighbors act.



FWIW I am completely and totally disgusted by Spike Lee and his ilk. What he did is heinous and possibly criminal in nature. He has always been an ass clown, but this takes it to an entirely different level.

So we're going to have national protests every time a neighborhood watch volunteer doesn't follow standard operating procedure? That makes him guilty of murder. There is no evidence that he engaged Trayvon, actually all evidence suggests it was the other way around. And so what if he did engage him? Is that against the law? We can't talk to people now? That gives Travnon the right to attack him?

You don't know that. White people get called in to the police as suspicious all the goddamn time. You don't know he called in because of how he looked. According to Zimmerman it was because he was someone he had never seen before who didn't appear to be walking anywhere in particular and he was walking between houses. What he looks like had little to do with it. And I don't care if it's a Graham Wellington in a three piece suit, if he's walking between my house I'm gonna say something to him. And if I don't like his answer I'm calling the cops. And if he leaves I'm following him until the cops get there. And if he's bashing my head into the concrete and tries to grab my gun I'm gonna put a hole in him.

Also I love how people use the "he was jumping fences in between people's houses so he didn't have to take the long way home" defense. How the **** could zimmerman have known that? You don't judge these situations based on the parties being omniscient. You judge it on what they would have reasonably known at the time. How was he going to tell Martin's dad? He didn't know the kid, the kid didn't live in that neighborhood? Are you suggesting he follow him to see where he lives?

Another question I have. If Trayvon was just going to get skittles and an ice tea why didn't anyone call the police until the next day? Your son walks down the street to buy some candy don't you go looking for him after about an hour? You let a night go by not knowing where your son is before you go into action? Doesn't add up to me. Martin may have been going out to grab some candy but his parents actions make it seem ordinary for him to disappear hours at a time doing who knows what.

[Guilty]

Two other points. What a bunch of poosy neighbors George Zimmerman had for not going out and getting involved to break things up when there was clearly someone (Zimmerman by all accounts) screaming for help. That "Im not getting involved" mentallity disgusts me. There are tons of stories of people raped, beaten and killed right in front of people and they just walk right over them and leave them to die. Recently in Houston (vid was on the net) an elderly black WWII vet was car jacked in a gas station parking lot--several people watched and did nothing. The man crawled with his broken leg to the cashier as people walked right by him. Disgusting.

And how would you feel to have a stranger or anyone walking around your house at night? They would find me in their face in a heartbeat--in fact, I done it. You dont go messing around in other peoples property. Ever.

I agree 100%. I could never sit back while some guy was getting beat down screaming for help. I don't understand the mentality of "never get involved" at all. Not when someone is getting seriously hurt. Only a fool goes messing around in other people's property. I would hope my neighbors would at the very least call the police if someone's walking beside my house. I hate our society sometimes. Zimmerman is getting killed for being a good neighbor. Law abiding citizens should be able to look out for each other without someone complaining that they're racist or prejudiced against hoodies. How absurd. And people actually buy into this ****? Unreal.

[Thumpin]

A Norteños gang member puts a hole in a Crip and you'd never have this kind of media coverage.

[Cbear]

I think it was People mag I saw today with the photo when he was 13 and the headline "a national tragedy.". Good lord what insanity.

[split decision]

Add this twist to the case, not a positive development for Zimmerman:

Trayvon Martin shooting: It's not George Zimmerman crying for help on 911 recording, 2 experts say
5:38 p.m. EST, March 31, 2012|

By Jeff Weiner, Orlando Sentinel

As the Trayvon Martin controversy splinters into a debate about self-defense, a central question remains: Who was heard crying for help on a 911 call in the moments before the teen was shot?

A leading expert in the field of forensic voice identification sought to answer that question by analyzing the recordings for the Orlando Sentinel.

His result: It was not George Zimmerman who called for help.

Tom Owen, forensic consultant for Owen Forensic Services LLC and chair emeritus for the American Board of Recorded Evidence, used voice identification software to rule out Zimmerman. Another expert contacted by the Sentinel, utilizing different techniques, came to the same conclusion.

Zimmerman claims self-defense in the shooting and told police he was the one screaming for help. But these experts say the evidence tells a different story.

'Scientific certainty'

On a rainy night in late February, a woman called 911 to report someone crying out for help in her gated Sanford community, Retreat at Twin Lakes.

Though several of her neighbors eventually called authorities, she phoned early enough for dispatchers to hear the panicked cries and the gunshot that took Trayvon Martin's life.

George Zimmerman, a Neighborhood Watch volunteer, shot Trayvon, an unarmed 17-year-old, during a one-on-one confrontation Feb. 26.

Before the shot, one of them can be heard screaming for help.

Owen, a court-qualified expert witness and former chief engineer for the New York Public Library's Rodgers and Hammerstein Archives of Recorded Sound, is an authority on biometric voice analysis — a computerized process comparing attributes of voices to determine whether they match.

After the Sentinel contacted Owen, he used software called Easy Voice Biometrics to compare Zimmerman's voice to the 911 call screams.

"I took all of the screams and put those together, and cut out everything else," Owen says.

The software compared that audio to Zimmerman's voice. It returned a 48 percent match. Owen said to reach a positive match with audio of this quality, he'd expect higher than 90 percent.

"As a result of that, you can say with reasonable scientific certainty that it's not Zimmerman," Owen says, stressing that he cannot confirm the voice as Trayvon's, because he didn't have a sample of the teen's voice to compare.

Forensic voice identification is not a new or novel concept; in fact, a recent U.S. Department of Justice committee report notes that federal interest in the technology "has a history of nearly 70 years."

In the post 9-11 world, Owen says, voice identification is "the main biometric tool" used to track international criminals, as well as terrorists.

"These people don't leave fingerprints, but they do still need to talk to one another," he says.

'The home run'

Though the term "biometric analysis" may sound futuristic, it basically just means using personal characteristics for identification. A fingerprint scanner is an example of a biometric device.

Much as the ridges of a human hand produce a fingerprint, each human voice has unique, distinguishable traits, Owen says. "They're all particular to the individual."

Another benefit of modern biometric analysis, Owen said, is it doesn't require an "in context" comparison. In other words, Owen didn't need a sample of Zimmerman screaming in order to compare his voice to the call.

The technology Owen used to analyze the Zimmerman tape has a wide range of applications, including national security and international policing, he said. A recently as January, Owen used the same technology to identify accused murderer Sheila Davalloo in a 911 call made almost a decade ago.

Owen testified that it was Davalloo, accused of stabbing another woman nine times in a condo in Shippan, Conn., who reported the killing to police from a pay phone in November 2002.

Davalloo was convicted, according to news reports.

Owen says the audio from Zimmerman's call is much better quality than the 911 call in the Davalloo case. Voice identification experts judge the quality based on a signal-to-noise ratio; in other words, comparing the usable audio in a clip to the environmental noises that make a match difficult.

And the call on which the screams are heard is better quality than is necessary, Owen says.

"In our world, that's the home run," he says.

Not all experts rely on biometrics. Ed Primeau, a Michigan-based audio engineer and forensics expert, is not a believer in the technology's use in courtroom settings.

He relies instead on audio enhancement and human analysis based on forensic experience. After listening closely to the 911 tape on which the screams are heard, Primeau also has a strong opinion.

"I believe that's Trayvon Martin in the background, without a doubt," Primeau says, stressing that the tone of the voice is a giveaway. "That's a young man screaming."

Zimmerman's call to authorities minutes before the shooting provides a good standard for comparison, Primeau says, because it captures his voice both at rest and in an agitated state.

'CSI' effect

Only one person alive knows exactly what transpired in the moments immediately before Trayvon was fatally shot: Zimmerman, who has claimed he fired in self-defense.

Zimmerman told police he was walking back to his SUV after a brief foot pursuit of Martin, and the teen confronted and attacked him, punching him and slamming his head into the pavement.

Arriving police said Zimmerman was bloodied. One officer wrote in a police report that he overheard Zimmerman telling a paramedic, "I was yelling for someone to help me, but no one would help me."

Angela Corey, the special prosecutor assigned to the case, has yet to decide whether to charge Zimmerman, send the case to a grand jury or decide against charging.

If Zimmerman's self-defense claim is tested at trial, legal experts say a forensic identification of the voice in the 911 audio could be key evidence, either in Zimmerman's favor or to his detriment.

Still, Maine-based audio enhancement expert Arlo West says that today's juries sometimes seem reluctant to accept evidence that's any less conclusive than what they're used to seeing on television.

"I call it the 'CSI' effect," he says, referring to "CSI: Crime Scene Investigation," the popular — if not always realistic — forensics-based TV drama. "You get in front of a jury, and they expect a miracle."

[Thumpin]

It really doesn't do anything except may prove the voice on the phone audio wasn't Zimmerman. I could have been Grandma from the second story window calling for help. Until they match the voice "with 90% certainty", I think any lawyer can punch holes in this pretty easily if its meant to convict Zimmerman

[Cbear]

It just makes it all the more apparent that the "National tragedy" and all the other assorted media driven bull**** has created a monster. The facts are not in, its all conjecture and MLK is spinning in his grave at how backwards race relations have gone since his death and his teachings were co-opted by the race hatemongers for their own personal gain.