Fighter contracts: Should they be 'Show/win/finish' instead of 'show/win'?

[LordZardoz]

Random thought I just had. Plenty of posters get annoyed with the chronic lack of finishes from some fighters (mostly Jon Fitch). The UFC tries to get fighters to go for a finish by offering the KO of the Night / Sub of the Night bonuses.

Why not grant further incentive by changing the way the contract is structured? A typical contract has something like "15 000 to show up, and 15 000 to win' as the basic rule. So why not instead offer '10k to show up and fight, 10k to win, and 10kto finish'?

Or break the portions down differently. 10 / 15 / 5 may be more reasonable. Or 10k / 7k / 8k?

It may suck for some of the fighters, but it would go along way towards rewarding guys who consistently finish over those who almost never finish.

Thoughts?

END COMMUNICATION

[HugeMMAFan]

There should be both.

[Skinny]

Random thought I just had. Plenty of posters get annoyed with the chronic lack of finishes from some fighters (mostly Jon Fitch). The UFC tries to get fighters to go for a finish by offering the KO of the Night / Sub of the Night bonuses.

Why not grant further incentive by changing the way the contract is structured? A typical contract has something like "15 000 to show up, and 15 000 to win' as the basic rule. So why not instead offer '10k to show up and fight, 10k to win, and 10kto finish'?

Or break the portions down differently. 10 / 15 / 5 may be more reasonable. Or 10k / 7k / 8k?

It may suck for some of the fighters, but it would go along way towards rewarding guys who consistently finish over those who almost never finish.

Thoughts?

END COMMUNICATION

It would be a good idea to experiment with for a year with prelim fights. Crunch the numbers after 12 months and compare the stats to previous prelim fight stats. If you end up with a 20-30% increase in fights resulting in a definitive finish then maybe you change over completely? I dunno.

[bhorrrr]

can anyone name a fighter they think would be more aggressive under this structure?

fitch, for example, would absolutely do 0 different with this contract. the man fights to win, money and rep be damned.

that being said, i don't actually believe a whole lot of guys fight for decisions. i think they fight looking for openings that their skill set doesn't provide them with. it's stupid to me to think that fitch wouldn't take a rnc or an arm triangle if he could find his way to one.

the only guys i really criticize as fighting for decisions are the ones holding dudes against the cage. and i, personally, believe that that is mostly a tactic used when you fear both your opponent's standup and ground game. and when the fear is powerful enough that "public perception of my be damned, i just need to get out of here without looking TOO ridiculous", then they're going to keep fighting that way without some GIGANTIC impetus. such as their entire career depending on it.

[tantryl]

I agree with Skinny on testing it. I doubt it'll make much difference but you may as well give it a go and ditch it if it doesn't.

[Skinny]

can anyone name a fighter they think would be more aggressive under this structure?

fitch, for example, would absolutely do 0 different with this contract. the man fights to win, money and rep be damned.

that being said, i don't actually believe a whole lot of guys fight for decisions. i think they fight looking for openings that their skill set doesn't provide them with. it's stupid to me to think that fitch wouldn't take a rnc or an arm triangle if he could find his way to one.

the only guys i really criticize as fighting for decisions are the ones holding dudes against the cage. and i, personally, believe that that is mostly a tactic used when you fear both your opponent's standup and ground game. and when the fear is powerful enough that "public perception of my be damned, i just need to get out of here without looking TOO ridiculous", then they're going to keep fighting that way without some GIGANTIC impetus. such as their entire career depending on it.

I don't have the numbers (are there any numbers?) yet I wonder how many times guys have gone into round 3 believing they were ahead then at some point look up at the clock (Liddell/Wandy is one of the more famous examples of this scenario) as they try to ride it out to a decision victory?

[Buckery]

These guys are already being offered 50 to 75k for bonuses as is.

I think some fighters are capable of finishing a fight more ways than another fighter. Pretty obvious. Those guys that can only finish a fight in a limited amount of ways are up **** creek. Jon Fitch is never, ever, ever, ever in life going to knock someone out cold. Therefore he relies on submissions. Guys he fights now with good submission defense will train and rely on it. Fitch doesn't get a finish.

It is what it is. I do think it wouldn't hurt to try but without making the bonus extreme (low to mid tier fighters are already being offered a bonus that's 2 to 6 or 7 times their base to show salary). Make it more than the to show purse. It will increase the number of guys who make attempt just based on the annoucement. Some guys in the UFC just aren't at a high percentage of fight finishes.

[Cbear]

Winner take all. Finishing doubles your pay.

[Skinny]

These guys are already being offered 50 to 75k for bonuses as is.

I think some fighters are capable of finishing a fight more ways than another fighter. Pretty obvious. Those guys that can only finish a fight in a limited amount of ways are up **** creek. Jon Fitch is never, ever, ever, ever in life going to knock someone out cold. Therefore he relies on submissions. Guys he fights now with good submission defense will train and rely on it. Fitch doesn't get a finish.

It is what it is. I do think it wouldn't hurt to try but without making the bonus extreme (low to mid tier fighters are already being offered a bonus that's 2 to 6 or 7 times their base to show salary). Make it more than the to show purse. It will increase the number of guys who make attempt just based on the annoucement. Some guys in the UFC just aren't at a high percentage of fight finishes.

What if Fitch took the Forrest Gump/Shogun route towards finishing a fight? Keep attacking until your opponent becomes so fatigued they can't defend the sub attack. He might be able to do it because he has the cardio. But it requires taking a chance that you won't burn up before your opponent (or get caught being overly aggressive).

[bhorrrr]

another reason i don't think it can be a bonus is that, by natural law of insane fighter personal pride, everyone believes they have what it takes to be a champ one day, and winning is ultimately going to be all that matters. being the champ is worth a ton more to everyone in the sport than bonuses, and it's the ultimate reputation-fixer.

i think that, to be effective, it'd actually have to be a punishment for not finishing, and i'm against that in nearly every way, so i really wouldn't know what to do.